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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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yes it's the skeptic zone episode number

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131

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for the 22nd of april

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2011. richard saunders here with you

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visiting my good friend jim wilshere on

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his uh lovely farm

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at a place called talmalmo right in the

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southern bit of new south wales

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alongside the murray river

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beautiful gorgeous to be down here for a

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few days to help jim

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celebrate his birthday

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i'm sitting here just outside his

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farmhouse

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surrounded by beautiful lush green

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countryside you can hear the odd

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cockatoo and

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there's cattle over there past the fence

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wonderful idyllic spot for a few days

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coming up on this week's skeptic zone

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i speak to david tyler from the

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launceston skeptics in tasmania about

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their adventures visiting a mind body

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wallet mind body spirit mind body soul

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festival in launceston

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as skeptics in other words they turned

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up there had their own table

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and were giving up skeptical advice

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into the heart of darkness you might say

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that interview coming up soon

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following that we hear from australian

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skeptics editor and chief executive

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officer tim mendem

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a recent bit he recorded for abc radio

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all about universities in australia

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giving out

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well

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strange degrees in very strange courses

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wu university you might call it

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after that we have dr rachie with dr

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raichi reports

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talking about the use of sciency

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sounding words in advertising would you

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like some quantum with that and to wrap

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up the show we have maynard with his

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spooky action at a distance

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now maynard is going to visit mike

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dawson who has a room a house

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in fact a whole house full of uh

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dinosaurs

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and the last little bit of the show is a

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brief interview with a good friend of

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ours david barwick

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who bought me yet another power balance

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band

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now before we really get into the show a

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few little other points i have decided

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well i've been encouraged and asked and

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we received a donation to the skeptic

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zone

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to go

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vegan

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for two days i'm happy to do it why not

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what fun

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lovely uh pumpkin soup

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vegetables

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oh i can think of some great vegan food

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i can get stuck into just for two days

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not a problem and that's thanks to

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on twitter flex a vegan

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but i don't think i'll be doing it

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forever couple of days why not good fun

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and hey if you want to go vegan for a

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couple of days what's the harm in that

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put that cow back

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oh jim happy birthday by the way

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thank you

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jim standing over there at the entry to

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his house with minnie the dog

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minnie the dog the cattle dog the

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intelligent cattle dog

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now i'd like to thank listener seth

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wolfson who sent me a copy of his book

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all about forensic sculpting this is the

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sort of

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things you see on tv where they get a

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skull and they s carefully put little

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little bits of

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modelling clay on it and build up the

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face again for the police to have a look

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at what a fascinating area of

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endeavour and you can check out seth's

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thanks seth what an interesting book

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you've sent me

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and now we have a very important message

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that dr rachie has asked me to to bring

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to you before we get into the show

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on the 20th of april 2011 a draft report

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was posted from the australian

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government

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saying that homeopathy is unethical and

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without efficacy

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according to the report their findings

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have come about owing to recent claims

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that homeopathy is a substitute for

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vaccination homeopathy itself is under

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fire having been implicated in two

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recent deaths in australia

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also the finding of the uk science and

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technology committee that no taxpayer

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money should be spent on this quackery

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now this is the first time the

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australian government has made such a

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strong statement about homeopathy and we

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at the skeptic zone welcome this

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development you can find out more about

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this story by visiting the skeptics owns

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blog which is dr raichi's blog the

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skeptic book

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also with the newsletter that comes out

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with this episode if you subscribe

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www.skepticzone.tv

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there's a link to the recent story

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that i appeared in on today tonight the

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tv show about homeopathy now i played

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the audio on last week's show well i've

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put the video online now for you to see

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all right

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as i sit back here and enjoy the

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drifting clouds over the hills and

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the screech of the cockatoos behind my

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shoulder

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the wind and the birds

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i'll let you

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enjoy

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and joining me now from launceston in

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beautiful tasmania it's david tyler hi

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david hi richard how are you i'm pretty

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well and i'm very interested to hear

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more about your adventures going to the

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body and soul festival

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as not a skeptic in disguise not just

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having a look around but actually being

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there and representing the skeptical

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movement how how was that how did that

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pan out

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well it panned out very well we were and

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quite frankly richard we we didn't

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really think we'd pull this off

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it came from a discussion we had at one

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of our skeptics in the pub meetings and

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someone said why don't we go along to it

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and we said

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we won't be allowed to go

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we thought well we should ask and we

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went along and had a meeting with the

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organizers and

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and sure enough we got ourselves a booth

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and a way we went from there

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that must have been an interesting

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meeting what was the organizer's

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reaction to your uh request

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we had gone along there pre-prepared

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with a with a little manifesto and a

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code of conduct if you like because we

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wanted to make sure that if we did go to

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this thing

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we were not in any sense a trojan horse

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we wanted to go we wanted to go in good

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faith up front

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true to ourselves and not in any way

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hiding what we were about so we had this

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manifesto and and the lady who the

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organizing lady was was really rather

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good about it and uh

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she was quite you know surprising she

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she took the view that um

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it was okay to have an alternative um

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viewpoint expressed there and if anybody

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any of the other stall holders were

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threatened by that well that was their

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problem so that was a that was a perfect

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approach from our point of view that

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that's good that's uh well quite an

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open-minded if i couldn't use that term

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approach from the organizers down there

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it is it you know it's over the years

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it's occurred to us here up here in

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sydney because there are two um mind

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body spirit or mind body wallet

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festivals a year here they go for about

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four days and it would be very

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we always think it would be very

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difficult for us to have some

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representatives there over the the the

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course of the whole festival but the one

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in tasmania the one in launceston i

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gather didn't go for so long

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i went for three days well that's that's

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a bit longer than i thought yeah yeah

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three three day three four days and we

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had only had eight or nine members

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and um and we drew up rosters we decided

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that we really ought to have at least

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two people

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present on the stall at any one time

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just just in case i mean quite frankly

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we were we went through all these horror

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scenarios in our minds once we realized

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this was going to happen yeah you know

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what what if what if someone confronts

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us and and gets angry

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what if someone comes up and says oh

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look

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you know can you tell us about stall

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number 37 is that a scam we had to think

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we had to think all those things through

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and and and have approaches that were

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that we thought were reasonable but

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still were true to our own values

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so we had we had our two people and we

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look we had a ball it was it was really

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good and we met some really interesting

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people

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in fact believe it or not there are

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a couple of people who actually came to

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the festival to talk to us oh really to

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talk to the skeptics so

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that that was a that was a bit unusual

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but we got to know some of the other

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stall holders and and and there were

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some interesting characters they really

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always are that that's very true did did

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the situation arise where someone

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was indignant that you were there or a

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member of the public said to you what

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about those those stan 37 what do you

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think of those people

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not not overtly in fact we were quite

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surprised we

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we

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walked past look down their noses and at

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us but the thing we feared more than

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anything was not hostility but

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indifference

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and and we didn't really get any

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hostility we've got some people who

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wanted to have spirited arguments with

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us and that was that was fine spirited

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discussions yeah but there was no no one

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abused us um i suspect that the ones who

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were weren't that pleased about our

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presence probably just stayed away

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but we we had to decide also richard

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what what we wanted to achieve from this

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it's not just a case of turning up you

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have to have a plan so we thought okay

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what do we want to achieve and we

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decided that really it was about

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encouraging people to think a little bit

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before particularly before they spend

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their money on things so to that end

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we produced a series of of little cards

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that we call think a thinker's guide to

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you know

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i think the thinkers guide to

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reflexology to homeopathy psychic

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reading and so on so we produced a bunch

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of those and we thought that's simple

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little things that someone might read

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you could read it in 30 seconds yeah

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rather the people

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in that sort of market are not going to

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want to read five or six pages of

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stuff about homeopathy they want a

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little bite-sized thing and then and

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then they can look for more stuff if

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they want to yes absolutely i think

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that's the the best approach because if

281
00:11:11,269 --> 00:11:09,920
you're going to engage somebody's

282
00:11:12,949 --> 00:11:11,279
interest the last thing you want to do

283
00:11:15,110 --> 00:11:12,959
is give them a little booklet which they

284
00:11:17,350 --> 00:11:15,120
can't possibly absorb or read or

285
00:11:19,670 --> 00:11:17,360
understand in a short time if they're

286
00:11:21,269 --> 00:11:19,680
just sort of casually walking past

287
00:11:22,870 --> 00:11:21,279
now i um

288
00:11:24,069 --> 00:11:22,880
i've found these things to be so

289
00:11:25,990 --> 00:11:24,079
interesting over the years and i've

290
00:11:28,389 --> 00:11:26,000
always encouraged my listeners and

291
00:11:30,310 --> 00:11:28,399
skeptics i've met and other people to go

292
00:11:32,389 --> 00:11:30,320
along at least to go along to one of

293
00:11:35,350 --> 00:11:32,399
these mind body spirit mind body wallet

294
00:11:37,350 --> 00:11:35,360
type body and soul festivals

295
00:11:39,590 --> 00:11:37,360
because i always think it's a

296
00:11:42,550 --> 00:11:39,600
valuable learning opportunity for your

297
00:11:45,190 --> 00:11:42,560
average skeptic to understand what's

298
00:11:46,470 --> 00:11:45,200
going on out there in well i don't know

299
00:11:48,550 --> 00:11:46,480
if you'd call it the real world but

300
00:11:50,150 --> 00:11:48,560
that's that area

301
00:11:51,829 --> 00:11:50,160
had you been to one of these things

302
00:11:53,910 --> 00:11:51,839
before yourself

303
00:11:56,230 --> 00:11:53,920
oh yes i had richard and but but i have

304
00:11:58,389 --> 00:11:56,240
to say looking at it from the inside as

305
00:12:00,790 --> 00:11:58,399
it were gave an entirely different

306
00:12:02,949 --> 00:12:00,800
perspective and and when you're sitting

307
00:12:05,030 --> 00:12:02,959
there for hours on end watching things

308
00:12:07,509 --> 00:12:05,040
and talking to people you really do get

309
00:12:10,069 --> 00:12:07,519
it you see it from a different viewpoint

310
00:12:12,069 --> 00:12:10,079
and particularly we we had some interest

311
00:12:14,069 --> 00:12:12,079
from some of the other stall holders who

312
00:12:16,949 --> 00:12:14,079
would come and talk to us and it was

313
00:12:19,509 --> 00:12:16,959
almost as if it was almost as if we were

314
00:12:21,269 --> 00:12:19,519
kind of accepted as part of the the

315
00:12:23,430 --> 00:12:21,279
carnival if you like

316
00:12:26,790 --> 00:12:23,440
and and and we were kind of suddenly we

317
00:12:29,430 --> 00:12:26,800
were insiders instead of being outsiders

318
00:12:31,110 --> 00:12:29,440
and and in fact a couple of the couple

319
00:12:33,750 --> 00:12:31,120
of people actually confided in us there

320
00:12:36,710 --> 00:12:33,760
was a there was a tarot reader who a

321
00:12:38,790 --> 00:12:36,720
lady who who told us that um i'll appear

322
00:12:41,030 --> 00:12:38,800
there's no there's no magic in this this

323
00:12:42,710 --> 00:12:41,040
is i'm just a counsellor you know the

324
00:12:45,110 --> 00:12:42,720
cards don't mean anything but i help

325
00:12:48,069 --> 00:12:45,120
people and i talk to them

326
00:12:49,750 --> 00:12:48,079
which of course is is fine if

327
00:12:52,150 --> 00:12:49,760
people aren't having serious problems

328
00:12:54,949 --> 00:12:52,160
where a trained counselor could perhaps

329
00:12:57,190 --> 00:12:54,959
do something more worthwhile for them

330
00:12:59,990 --> 00:12:57,200
and there was a there was a guy one of

331
00:13:02,310 --> 00:13:00,000
the other psychic readers who who

332
00:13:05,190 --> 00:13:02,320
he took a bit of a shine to us and i'll

333
00:13:07,509 --> 00:13:05,200
call him marvin yeah and and marvin

334
00:13:09,910 --> 00:13:07,519
marvin spoke to us at length or several

335
00:13:11,750 --> 00:13:09,920
times during the over the three days and

336
00:13:13,910 --> 00:13:11,760
he told some he was a real sort of a

337
00:13:16,629 --> 00:13:13,920
carney fella you couldn't help like him

338
00:13:18,470 --> 00:13:16,639
but i like him he's that sort of a guy

339
00:13:20,949 --> 00:13:18,480
and he was he would tell us you know

340
00:13:22,870 --> 00:13:20,959
anecdotes about his experiences and

341
00:13:25,190 --> 00:13:22,880
and one in particular which if you've

342
00:13:27,750 --> 00:13:25,200
got time for me to relate um

343
00:13:30,150 --> 00:13:27,760
he he spoke about about the time when he

344
00:13:32,550 --> 00:13:30,160
um he was doing a reading for a quite an

345
00:13:34,310 --> 00:13:32,560
elderly lady and he didn't really have

346
00:13:36,069 --> 00:13:34,320
any idea he said i had no idea what to

347
00:13:38,470 --> 00:13:36,079
say to her and but i happen to have

348
00:13:40,150 --> 00:13:38,480
noticed outside the the building in the

349
00:13:41,670 --> 00:13:40,160
in the street there was an old austin

350
00:13:44,470 --> 00:13:41,680
car parked

351
00:13:46,550 --> 00:13:44,480
and so for no other reason than that he

352
00:13:48,550 --> 00:13:46,560
said to her oh you know what what's this

353
00:13:50,870 --> 00:13:48,560
what's happened to austin

354
00:13:51,990 --> 00:13:50,880
and the lady who reacted with great

355
00:13:53,590 --> 00:13:52,000
surprise

356
00:13:55,670 --> 00:13:53,600
and it turned out that and she and then

357
00:13:57,189 --> 00:13:55,680
she said oh we buried him yesterday oh

358
00:13:59,509 --> 00:13:57,199
no

359
00:14:02,150 --> 00:13:59,519
it turned out that she had misheard him

360
00:14:03,110 --> 00:14:02,160
and and it was oscar oh her husband

361
00:14:05,670 --> 00:14:03,120
oscar

362
00:14:07,829 --> 00:14:05,680
not not austin and of course it was just

363
00:14:09,590 --> 00:14:07,839
one of those lucky hits oh wow that that

364
00:14:10,389 --> 00:14:09,600
these people have from time to time and

365
00:14:11,590 --> 00:14:10,399
um

366
00:14:13,269 --> 00:14:11,600
yeah so

367
00:14:14,870 --> 00:14:13,279
those sort of things and i'm sure they

368
00:14:16,790 --> 00:14:14,880
wouldn't have confided in us like that

369
00:14:18,470 --> 00:14:16,800
if we'd have just been skeptics going up

370
00:14:19,269 --> 00:14:18,480
to you know have it have a chat with

371
00:14:21,350 --> 00:14:19,279
them

372
00:14:23,030 --> 00:14:21,360
so we're kind of accepted on the inside

373
00:14:25,030 --> 00:14:23,040
a bit yeah it reminds me of a funny

374
00:14:27,350 --> 00:14:25,040
situation where um

375
00:14:30,870 --> 00:14:27,360
oh a number of years ago i was at one of

376
00:14:33,509 --> 00:14:30,880
these things here in sydney and i i i

377
00:14:35,829 --> 00:14:33,519
struck up a conversation with a woman

378
00:14:37,189 --> 00:14:35,839
who uh claimed to have uh witchcraft

379
00:14:38,069 --> 00:14:37,199
powers

380
00:14:42,629 --> 00:14:38,079
and i

381
00:14:43,910 --> 00:14:42,639
said in a low voice you know

382
00:14:46,230 --> 00:14:43,920
you've got to you've got to admit

383
00:14:47,829 --> 00:14:46,240
there's a lot of crazy people here

384
00:14:49,269 --> 00:14:47,839
to see what her reaction was and she

385
00:14:51,269 --> 00:14:49,279
looked at me and she said

386
00:14:53,030 --> 00:14:51,279
yeah yeah there are a lot of really

387
00:14:55,590 --> 00:14:53,040
crazy people here so i thought that was

388
00:14:57,670 --> 00:14:55,600
quite funny to get that

389
00:15:00,710 --> 00:14:57,680
to get someone like that confiding in me

390
00:15:03,269 --> 00:15:00,720
at at that time and that person who will

391
00:15:05,670 --> 00:15:03,279
will call oh i don't know glenda for a

392
00:15:07,509 --> 00:15:05,680
lack of a better word uh initially said

393
00:15:09,910 --> 00:15:07,519
that she would gladly take this

394
00:15:12,870 --> 00:15:09,920
skeptic's 100 000 challenge because she

395
00:15:14,949 --> 00:15:12,880
could do her her claim anywhere and

396
00:15:17,030 --> 00:15:14,959
eventually she backed down so

397
00:15:19,110 --> 00:15:17,040
but there you go did you have marvin

398
00:15:19,910 --> 00:15:19,120
marvin wants to come and have us test

399
00:15:22,470 --> 00:15:19,920
him

400
00:15:24,069 --> 00:15:22,480
um we haven't really advanced that yet

401
00:15:25,990 --> 00:15:24,079
we'll have to work out some way of doing

402
00:15:27,670 --> 00:15:26,000
that but he's he's he seems to be

403
00:15:29,110 --> 00:15:27,680
fixated on the idea that he can tell

404
00:15:31,030 --> 00:15:29,120
whether someone has moved into a new

405
00:15:32,870 --> 00:15:31,040
house or bought a new house or something

406
00:15:33,829 --> 00:15:32,880
that seems to be that seems to be his

407
00:15:36,310 --> 00:15:33,839
shtick

408
00:15:37,990 --> 00:15:36,320
um i'm not sure why maybe he's had a bit

409
00:15:39,750 --> 00:15:38,000
of success along those lines well it

410
00:15:41,670 --> 00:15:39,760
would hardly surprise me if he had a bit

411
00:15:43,670 --> 00:15:41,680
of a success along those lines it's a

412
00:15:45,269 --> 00:15:43,680
classic the moving the house the new

413
00:15:47,110 --> 00:15:45,279
house you're thinking about it you just

414
00:15:49,430 --> 00:15:47,120
have you did a year ago you will next

415
00:15:50,949 --> 00:15:49,440
year haven't moved house i bet you will

416
00:15:52,949 --> 00:15:50,959
that sort of thing you know you can't

417
00:15:55,269 --> 00:15:52,959
you can't lose can you prevent something

418
00:15:56,230 --> 00:15:55,279
but one of the best things that happened

419
00:15:57,910 --> 00:15:56,240
um

420
00:16:00,629 --> 00:15:57,920
and it was you know it's only a fairly

421
00:16:03,110 --> 00:16:00,639
small thing but but big in its way

422
00:16:05,430 --> 00:16:03,120
a young mother came to our

423
00:16:07,110 --> 00:16:05,440
stall and and was having a chat with us

424
00:16:08,790 --> 00:16:07,120
and she read a couple of the thinker's

425
00:16:10,949 --> 00:16:08,800
guide to cards

426
00:16:13,990 --> 00:16:10,959
and before she'd come to our store she

427
00:16:17,829 --> 00:16:14,000
had bought a homeopathic

428
00:16:20,069 --> 00:16:17,839
a whooping cough vaccination wow

429
00:16:21,590 --> 00:16:20,079
what she intended to give to her child

430
00:16:22,389 --> 00:16:21,600
or children wow

431
00:16:26,949 --> 00:16:22,399
and

432
00:16:28,949 --> 00:16:26,959
having a chat with us she actually went

433
00:16:30,710 --> 00:16:28,959
back and got her money back

434
00:16:32,470 --> 00:16:30,720
that's quite a win

435
00:16:34,949 --> 00:16:32,480
yeah i thought that was i think that was

436
00:16:36,870 --> 00:16:34,959
really really good that is that is quite

437
00:16:38,870 --> 00:16:36,880
a a winner it's a win for the child

438
00:16:40,870 --> 00:16:38,880
certainly

439
00:16:42,949 --> 00:16:40,880
and there were quite a few there were

440
00:16:45,030 --> 00:16:42,959
sort of other skeptics although not in

441
00:16:47,030 --> 00:16:45,040
the formal senses we might understand

442
00:16:49,430 --> 00:16:47,040
them there are some of the husbands who

443
00:16:51,269 --> 00:16:49,440
are sort of brought along by their wives

444
00:16:53,189 --> 00:16:51,279
we're glad to see us and glad to have a

445
00:16:54,949 --> 00:16:53,199
chat with us

446
00:16:56,150 --> 00:16:54,959
did you have a much of an opportunity

447
00:16:59,269 --> 00:16:56,160
when you were there

448
00:17:01,990 --> 00:16:59,279
uh to leave the stall and and wander

449
00:17:04,069 --> 00:17:02,000
around to see all the fun

450
00:17:06,309 --> 00:17:04,079
yes we did we did have time to do that

451
00:17:09,029 --> 00:17:06,319
and and i spoke with a number of people

452
00:17:11,270 --> 00:17:09,039
and i spoke with a very interesting

453
00:17:15,189 --> 00:17:11,280
lady who who was glad to tell us that

454
00:17:18,150 --> 00:17:15,199
she was 73 or in her 70s and she was um

455
00:17:20,150 --> 00:17:18,160
into reflexology and and i have

456
00:17:22,069 --> 00:17:20,160
absolutely no doubt richard of her

457
00:17:25,270 --> 00:17:22,079
sincerity she

458
00:17:26,069 --> 00:17:25,280
totally believed in what she was doing

459
00:17:28,309 --> 00:17:26,079
but

460
00:17:30,150 --> 00:17:28,319
a short discussion with her

461
00:17:32,630 --> 00:17:30,160
you you it became obvious that she

462
00:17:35,510 --> 00:17:32,640
didn't really have much of a clue about

463
00:17:37,350 --> 00:17:35,520
science or even anatomy but she she had

464
00:17:39,510 --> 00:17:37,360
lots of people who who said the doctors

465
00:17:41,909 --> 00:17:39,520
couldn't cure me but you did and

466
00:17:43,750 --> 00:17:41,919
and she was very she was very sincere

467
00:17:45,909 --> 00:17:43,760
well i mean

468
00:17:46,870 --> 00:17:45,919
this again reflects my own experience

469
00:17:49,830 --> 00:17:46,880
the

470
00:17:51,669 --> 00:17:49,840
lack of general or basic scientific

471
00:17:53,029 --> 00:17:51,679
knowledge of these people well no i

472
00:17:55,590 --> 00:17:53,039
don't want to be too blank about it but

473
00:17:56,710 --> 00:17:55,600
many of these people certainly

474
00:17:58,549 --> 00:17:56,720
which makes

475
00:18:00,230 --> 00:17:58,559
having a conversation with them or a

476
00:18:03,270 --> 00:18:00,240
constructive argument with them very

477
00:18:05,110 --> 00:18:03,280
limiting because often you can't get to

478
00:18:07,750 --> 00:18:05,120
really to first base because you're not

479
00:18:10,710 --> 00:18:07,760
speaking the same language as it were

480
00:18:11,630 --> 00:18:10,720
that's right and and you they will often

481
00:18:14,390 --> 00:18:11,640
cite

482
00:18:15,669 --> 00:18:14,400
pseudo-scientific proof and then and in

483
00:18:16,870 --> 00:18:15,679
the next breath say well you know

484
00:18:18,470 --> 00:18:16,880
science doesn't know what it's talking

485
00:18:20,390 --> 00:18:18,480
about so

486
00:18:23,750 --> 00:18:20,400
you know you get that sort of thing our

487
00:18:26,549 --> 00:18:23,760
stall was not very far from um an

488
00:18:28,870 --> 00:18:26,559
applied kinesiology outfit oh yeah which

489
00:18:31,590 --> 00:18:28,880
had about three or four massage tables

490
00:18:34,630 --> 00:18:31,600
and they were doing their thing and

491
00:18:36,470 --> 00:18:34,640
you know watching that for hours on end

492
00:18:39,190 --> 00:18:36,480
you really you

493
00:18:40,549 --> 00:18:39,200
you're just struck by how absurd the

494
00:18:44,310 --> 00:18:40,559
whole thing is

495
00:18:46,950 --> 00:18:44,320
and it looks like nothing more than

496
00:18:49,430 --> 00:18:46,960
uh you know banishing evil spirits with

497
00:18:51,750 --> 00:18:49,440
hand waving it's just astonishing when

498
00:18:54,470 --> 00:18:51,760
you actually get to see it

499
00:18:56,710 --> 00:18:54,480
for uh for some length of time oh it is

500
00:18:58,789 --> 00:18:56,720
yes it's it's um

501
00:19:00,470 --> 00:18:58,799
i must agree it struck me the first time

502
00:19:03,510 --> 00:19:00,480
i saw that and somebody was standing

503
00:19:06,070 --> 00:19:03,520
behind someone and almost doing a sort

504
00:19:08,549 --> 00:19:06,080
of a strange hula dance but waving their

505
00:19:10,470 --> 00:19:08,559
hands at the same time and then wringing

506
00:19:13,669 --> 00:19:10,480
their hands as if to to

507
00:19:16,310 --> 00:19:13,679
vanish the or vanquish the evil energies

508
00:19:17,990 --> 00:19:16,320
um and i'm i can't i can't imagine what

509
00:19:20,150 --> 00:19:18,000
it must be like to see that hour after

510
00:19:21,830 --> 00:19:20,160
an hour after well that's right and and

511
00:19:23,510 --> 00:19:21,840
i didn't realize that they did the foot

512
00:19:25,110 --> 00:19:23,520
movements you you mentioned a sort of a

513
00:19:27,029 --> 00:19:25,120
little dance they do these ones were

514
00:19:28,390 --> 00:19:27,039
doing yeah these were doing a you know

515
00:19:30,150 --> 00:19:28,400
they'd stand there with their feet sort

516
00:19:31,590 --> 00:19:30,160
of a normal width apart and then they'd

517
00:19:33,750 --> 00:19:31,600
bring their feet together and then back

518
00:19:36,950 --> 00:19:33,760
out again so that was obviously part of

519
00:19:38,630 --> 00:19:36,960
this ritual that this particular crowd

520
00:19:40,310 --> 00:19:38,640
was were undertaking

521
00:19:43,270 --> 00:19:40,320
but they were treating little children

522
00:19:44,230 --> 00:19:43,280
or there was one baby there at one stage

523
00:19:46,789 --> 00:19:44,240
and

524
00:19:48,150 --> 00:19:46,799
you know you you just you just wonder

525
00:19:49,669 --> 00:19:48,160
wow yeah

526
00:19:51,750 --> 00:19:49,679
it is it's difficult

527
00:19:54,230 --> 00:19:51,760
i agree it is difficult and but again

528
00:19:56,230 --> 00:19:54,240
it's no reason for skeptics not to go to

529
00:19:59,190 --> 00:19:56,240
these things because you know

530
00:20:01,430 --> 00:19:59,200
people on our side of the the argument

531
00:20:03,510 --> 00:20:01,440
really do need to see what is going on

532
00:20:04,310 --> 00:20:03,520
out there and why people are going to

533
00:20:07,750 --> 00:20:04,320
these

534
00:20:11,190 --> 00:20:07,760
stands and parting with good money for

535
00:20:14,870 --> 00:20:11,200
unproven and sometimes dangerous claims

536
00:20:16,710 --> 00:20:14,880
now do you think uh is this experience

537
00:20:18,630 --> 00:20:16,720
put you off or encouraged you to do it

538
00:20:21,990 --> 00:20:18,640
again next year i would love to do it

539
00:20:25,830 --> 00:20:22,000
again um in fact we were offered um a

540
00:20:27,350 --> 00:20:25,840
chance to to do a present a little like

541
00:20:29,669 --> 00:20:27,360
a seminar if you like they had these

542
00:20:31,830 --> 00:20:29,679
rolling seminar type things happening on

543
00:20:33,190 --> 00:20:31,840
the stage but we frankly we weren't just

544
00:20:35,510 --> 00:20:33,200
weren't equipped to do that at this

545
00:20:38,470 --> 00:20:35,520
stage because we're a bit like the the

546
00:20:40,310 --> 00:20:38,480
dog that chases the car and catches it

547
00:20:42,390 --> 00:20:40,320
you know now what are we going to do

548
00:20:44,549 --> 00:20:42,400
so we had to quit we had no logos we had

549
00:20:46,149 --> 00:20:44,559
no banners we had nothing we had no yeah

550
00:20:49,190 --> 00:20:46,159
and of course there's no rule no one

551
00:20:51,350 --> 00:20:49,200
you'd ask you know how did you do it um

552
00:20:52,789 --> 00:20:51,360
because it's a fairly new ground as far

553
00:20:55,270 --> 00:20:52,799
as i'm aware

554
00:20:57,750 --> 00:20:55,280
so we had to we had to scramble to get

555
00:21:00,230 --> 00:20:57,760
those sort of basic things done but but

556
00:21:01,510 --> 00:21:00,240
next year if we're invited back and i i

557
00:21:03,830 --> 00:21:01,520
hope we will be

558
00:21:05,590 --> 00:21:03,840
um we'd like to to do something well we

559
00:21:07,830 --> 00:21:05,600
might actually set up things like some

560
00:21:10,310 --> 00:21:07,840
our own free cold readings

561
00:21:11,830 --> 00:21:10,320
um we might even have someone make us a

562
00:21:13,590 --> 00:21:11,840
sceptometer or something where you grab

563
00:21:16,549 --> 00:21:13,600
the handles and it gives you a reading

564
00:21:18,149 --> 00:21:16,559
of your credulity perhaps i i don't know

565
00:21:20,230 --> 00:21:18,159
we'll think of something you might

566
00:21:22,710 --> 00:21:20,240
consider doing uh one of my favorites

567
00:21:25,510 --> 00:21:22,720
which is the applied kinesiology balance

568
00:21:27,750 --> 00:21:25,520
body balance tricks yes in fact that's

569
00:21:29,350 --> 00:21:27,760
that's very much on the cards um with

570
00:21:31,270 --> 00:21:29,360
that that's a good one to do and that's

571
00:21:32,950 --> 00:21:31,280
uh that's one that can be done

572
00:21:34,789 --> 00:21:32,960
in that sort of format fairly in a

573
00:21:36,950 --> 00:21:34,799
fairly straightforward manner absolutely

574
00:21:38,549 --> 00:21:36,960
absolutely and you could give away um

575
00:21:41,990 --> 00:21:38,559
one of our favorite things which is the

576
00:21:44,710 --> 00:21:42,000
placebo band from skepticbros.com

577
00:21:46,149 --> 00:21:44,720
yes yes indeed we'll we'll do that there

578
00:21:48,310 --> 00:21:46,159
there are a number of things we can do

579
00:21:50,630 --> 00:21:48,320
to really we learned a lot from from

580
00:21:52,630 --> 00:21:50,640
this first experience so we can

581
00:21:54,390 --> 00:21:52,640
hopefully enhance it next year so that's

582
00:21:56,070 --> 00:21:54,400
coming up in mid-march next year or

583
00:21:58,149 --> 00:21:56,080
there's more is it more frequent down

584
00:21:59,990 --> 00:21:58,159
there i i think it's only once a year

585
00:22:01,669 --> 00:22:00,000
i'm pretty sure it's once a year and i

586
00:22:03,350 --> 00:22:01,679
assume it'll be about the same time of

587
00:22:05,029 --> 00:22:03,360
year next year so we'll we'll have to

588
00:22:07,029 --> 00:22:05,039
get get in touch with the organizer and

589
00:22:07,750 --> 00:22:07,039
say look we'd love to come back again

590
00:22:13,029 --> 00:22:07,760
and

591
00:22:14,230 --> 00:22:13,039
out a lot of cards

592
00:22:15,909 --> 00:22:14,240
we we had a

593
00:22:18,310 --> 00:22:15,919
at a meeting that followed that we had

594
00:22:20,710 --> 00:22:18,320
some interesting new people turn up

595
00:22:22,470 --> 00:22:20,720
including some ghost hunters oh really

596
00:22:24,470 --> 00:22:22,480
oh yeah and they and they told us all

597
00:22:27,110 --> 00:22:24,480
about their they've got their you know

598
00:22:29,430 --> 00:22:27,120
machines that read the electromagnetic

599
00:22:31,669 --> 00:22:29,440
radiation and they had cameras and voice

600
00:22:33,110 --> 00:22:31,679
recorders and all of that sort of thing

601
00:22:34,310 --> 00:22:33,120
and there are a couple of ladies there

602
00:22:35,830 --> 00:22:34,320
was one lady

603
00:22:37,270 --> 00:22:35,840
and i think they came along really just

604
00:22:38,950 --> 00:22:37,280
to give us a bit of a

605
00:22:40,549 --> 00:22:38,960
give us a bit of curry

606
00:22:42,230 --> 00:22:40,559
because they were one of them in

607
00:22:43,669 --> 00:22:42,240
particular was talking about the magic

608
00:22:45,990 --> 00:22:43,679
of crystals

609
00:22:48,390 --> 00:22:46,000
and we were saying well okay tell us

610
00:22:50,950 --> 00:22:48,400
about that and we kind of in a gentle

611
00:22:52,710 --> 00:22:50,960
way suggested that perhaps crystals

612
00:22:54,789 --> 00:22:52,720
weren't all that magic though some of

613
00:22:56,870 --> 00:22:54,799
them are very lovely and then she said

614
00:22:59,830 --> 00:22:56,880
something like oh yeah well if they're

615
00:23:01,590 --> 00:22:59,840
not magic what about quartz watches no

616
00:23:05,029 --> 00:23:01,600
no she did

617
00:23:07,350 --> 00:23:05,039
and that kind of took us back because

618
00:23:08,549 --> 00:23:07,360
as one of our members said afterwards of

619
00:23:10,310 --> 00:23:08,559
all the things

620
00:23:12,549 --> 00:23:10,320
she could have could have presented as

621
00:23:15,430 --> 00:23:12,559
one of the mysteries of the world

622
00:23:17,270 --> 00:23:15,440
i could be wrong but i don't know that

623
00:23:18,630 --> 00:23:17,280
science is that baffled by how quartz

624
00:23:19,909 --> 00:23:18,640
watches work

625
00:23:21,510 --> 00:23:19,919
you know she could have talked about

626
00:23:23,669 --> 00:23:21,520
dark energy and how do you know that's

627
00:23:26,470 --> 00:23:23,679
not spirits and things but no it was

628
00:23:27,350 --> 00:23:26,480
quartz watches that were a big mystery

629
00:23:29,110 --> 00:23:27,360
so

630
00:23:32,549 --> 00:23:29,120
interesting there you go she hasn't she

631
00:23:35,909 --> 00:23:32,559
hasn't been back oh dear

632
00:23:38,630 --> 00:23:35,919
now i'm i'm delighted that uh there is

633
00:23:40,470 --> 00:23:38,640
good solid activism down in uh

634
00:23:41,990 --> 00:23:40,480
launceston in the beautiful state of

635
00:23:45,029 --> 00:23:42,000
tasmania

636
00:23:46,470 --> 00:23:45,039
do you uh have a handy website people

637
00:23:48,789 --> 00:23:46,480
can visit

638
00:23:50,789 --> 00:23:48,799
well we do if you just google launceston

639
00:23:51,669 --> 00:23:50,799
skeptics you'll find us

640
00:23:56,310 --> 00:23:51,679
and

641
00:23:58,630 --> 00:23:56,320
likes to join us in the royal oak hotel

642
00:24:00,950 --> 00:23:58,640
uh first and third thursday evenings at

643
00:24:03,350 --> 00:24:00,960
5 30. they're welcome to come along and

644
00:24:04,390 --> 00:24:03,360
say hello first and third said twice a

645
00:24:08,710 --> 00:24:04,400
month

646
00:24:10,070 --> 00:24:08,720
we have one formal we have one sort of a

647
00:24:12,710 --> 00:24:10,080
structured meeting where we might have

648
00:24:14,390 --> 00:24:12,720
someone speaking on something and one

649
00:24:16,070 --> 00:24:14,400
the next one's just a

650
00:24:17,750 --> 00:24:16,080
you know skeptics in the pub and we all

651
00:24:19,350 --> 00:24:17,760
just shoot the breeze that's fantastic

652
00:24:20,950 --> 00:24:19,360
so everybody down in that neck of the

653
00:24:22,230 --> 00:24:20,960
woods or if you

654
00:24:25,990 --> 00:24:22,240
care to have a look

655
00:24:27,830 --> 00:24:26,000
google launceston skeptics tasmania and

656
00:24:29,430 --> 00:24:27,840
take it from there well david thank you

657
00:24:32,470 --> 00:24:29,440
so much for chatting to me and our

658
00:24:34,549 --> 00:24:32,480
audience about your adventures uh i do

659
00:24:37,510 --> 00:24:34,559
take my hat off to you going in into the

660
00:25:03,190 --> 00:24:37,520
lion's den but having a good time

661
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:16,149
tv

662
00:25:20,070 --> 00:25:17,990
australian skeptics has been around for

663
00:25:22,149 --> 00:25:20,080
more than 30 years and over that time

664
00:25:24,630 --> 00:25:22,159
we've investigated many different forms

665
00:25:26,230 --> 00:25:24,640
of pseudoscience in the paranormal

666
00:25:28,390 --> 00:25:26,240
everything from flying sources and

667
00:25:30,630 --> 00:25:28,400
astrologers to the more serious and

668
00:25:32,870 --> 00:25:30,640
sometimes life-threatening subjects like

669
00:25:34,390 --> 00:25:32,880
cults and pseudo-medicine

670
00:25:36,549 --> 00:25:34,400
many of these investigations have

671
00:25:38,710 --> 00:25:36,559
involved shall we say eccentric

672
00:25:40,390 --> 00:25:38,720
individuals but let's be frank there are

673
00:25:42,789 --> 00:25:40,400
a lot of very strange people out there

674
00:25:44,149 --> 00:25:42,799
with equally strange beliefs

675
00:25:46,310 --> 00:25:44,159
but these sorts of beliefs aren't

676
00:25:48,070 --> 00:25:46,320
restricted to eccentrics

677
00:25:51,110 --> 00:25:48,080
we've found that such beliefs are shared

678
00:25:53,750 --> 00:25:51,120
by many in supposedly responsible and

679
00:25:55,110 --> 00:25:53,760
reputable organizations i've met one

680
00:25:57,909 --> 00:25:55,120
federal politician and government

681
00:25:59,029 --> 00:25:57,919
minister who believed in ghosts and of

682
00:26:01,269 --> 00:25:59,039
course there have been some in

683
00:26:04,549 --> 00:26:01,279
parliament and i do mean more than one

684
00:26:06,310 --> 00:26:04,559
who believe in young earth creationism

685
00:26:08,630 --> 00:26:06,320
throughout our existence we've adhered

686
00:26:11,029 --> 00:26:08,640
religiously if i can use that word to

687
00:26:13,110 --> 00:26:11,039
the scientific method we believe that

688
00:26:15,750 --> 00:26:13,120
evidence on both sides of the coin

689
00:26:19,590 --> 00:26:15,760
should be provable and repeatable

690
00:26:20,950 --> 00:26:19,600
pseudoscience by definition is not

691
00:26:22,390 --> 00:26:20,960
so you can imagine how disappointed

692
00:26:23,590 --> 00:26:22,400
we've been to see some australian

693
00:26:25,350 --> 00:26:23,600
universities

694
00:26:27,510 --> 00:26:25,360
teaching highly dubious subjects

695
00:26:29,430 --> 00:26:27,520
particularly in medicine without any

696
00:26:31,029 --> 00:26:29,440
evidence to support them

697
00:26:33,190 --> 00:26:31,039
i'm not talking about discussing such

698
00:26:34,310 --> 00:26:33,200
subjects in history or philosophy

699
00:26:36,230 --> 00:26:34,320
courses

700
00:26:39,269 --> 00:26:36,240
that would be justifiable if taught in

701
00:26:41,029 --> 00:26:39,279
an academic sense i'm also not talking

702
00:26:42,630 --> 00:26:41,039
about researching the science if any

703
00:26:44,630 --> 00:26:42,640
behind these subjects

704
00:26:47,269 --> 00:26:44,640
that's something we would encourage as

705
00:26:49,110 --> 00:26:47,279
it fits in with our basic premise

706
00:26:51,430 --> 00:26:49,120
what i am talking about is teaching them

707
00:26:53,029 --> 00:26:51,440
as legitimate areas of training

708
00:26:55,590 --> 00:26:53,039
with the result that students come out

709
00:26:57,110 --> 00:26:55,600
the other end as practitioners

710
00:26:59,990 --> 00:26:57,120
the topics that concern australian

711
00:27:02,070 --> 00:27:00,000
skeptics include chiropractic homeopathy

712
00:27:03,750 --> 00:27:02,080
and acupuncture for treatments beyond

713
00:27:05,510 --> 00:27:03,760
analgesic effects

714
00:27:07,750 --> 00:27:05,520
which regularly appear in university

715
00:27:09,430 --> 00:27:07,760
calendars at one time or another there

716
00:27:11,990 --> 00:27:09,440
have also been cases of individual

717
00:27:14,149 --> 00:27:12,000
academics or even faculties promoting

718
00:27:17,269 --> 00:27:14,159
young earth creationism psychic powers

719
00:27:19,750 --> 00:27:17,279
spiritualism auras tarot cards astrology

720
00:27:22,149 --> 00:27:19,760
etc etc which have appeared either in

721
00:27:23,909 --> 00:27:22,159
formal university courses or in special

722
00:27:25,909 --> 00:27:23,919
education services provided on

723
00:27:27,750 --> 00:27:25,919
university campuses

724
00:27:29,510 --> 00:27:27,760
we asked the university's umbrella group

725
00:27:31,029 --> 00:27:29,520
the former australian vice chancellors

726
00:27:32,149 --> 00:27:31,039
committee and now called universities

727
00:27:33,669 --> 00:27:32,159
australia

728
00:27:35,909 --> 00:27:33,679
if it had an official position on the

729
00:27:38,230 --> 00:27:35,919
bona fides of courses offered at

730
00:27:39,510 --> 00:27:38,240
australian tertiary institutions the

731
00:27:42,310 --> 00:27:39,520
answer was no

732
00:27:43,990 --> 00:27:42,320
it was up to the individual institutions

733
00:27:45,590 --> 00:27:44,000
they said that if any courses were of

734
00:27:49,430 --> 00:27:45,600
concern we should contact the

735
00:27:51,269 --> 00:27:49,440
institutions in question so we did

736
00:27:53,029 --> 00:27:51,279
australian skeptics approached 11

737
00:27:55,029 --> 00:27:53,039
universities and one institute of

738
00:27:57,190 --> 00:27:55,039
technology and asked about their

739
00:27:59,269 --> 00:27:57,200
specific diploma degree and postgraduate

740
00:28:00,950 --> 00:27:59,279
courses that they were offering

741
00:28:02,950 --> 00:28:00,960
we mentioned some of the more outlandish

742
00:28:05,590 --> 00:28:02,960
claims that have been made for these

743
00:28:07,909 --> 00:28:05,600
sciences like chiropractic can cure

744
00:28:09,669 --> 00:28:07,919
learning difficulties and asthma

745
00:28:12,230 --> 00:28:09,679
that acupuncture can treat aids and

746
00:28:14,470 --> 00:28:12,240
palsy that naturopathy is rooted in

747
00:28:16,630 --> 00:28:14,480
mysticism and spirituality

748
00:28:18,789 --> 00:28:16,640
that component courses in kinesiology

749
00:28:20,870 --> 00:28:18,799
and aromatherapy were offered and

750
00:28:22,950 --> 00:28:20,880
especially that homeopathy

751
00:28:25,750 --> 00:28:22,960
which featured in many courses has no

752
00:28:26,950 --> 00:28:25,760
basis in science at all beyond a placebo

753
00:28:28,630 --> 00:28:26,960
effect

754
00:28:30,230 --> 00:28:28,640
we said we were especially concerned

755
00:28:32,870 --> 00:28:30,240
that these subjects were being offered

756
00:28:35,029 --> 00:28:32,880
under the imprimatur of the university a

757
00:28:36,389 --> 00:28:35,039
place of higher learning and

758
00:28:38,230 --> 00:28:36,399
that there was no resulting from the

759
00:28:40,950 --> 00:28:38,240
fact that anyone looking at such a

760
00:28:43,669 --> 00:28:40,960
situation would naturally presume these

761
00:28:46,149 --> 00:28:43,679
subjects had been proven to be true

762
00:28:47,990 --> 00:28:46,159
when the truth is far from that

763
00:28:49,750 --> 00:28:48,000
naturally we expected all the

764
00:28:51,430 --> 00:28:49,760
universities to rise to the challenge

765
00:28:54,149 --> 00:28:51,440
and come back to us with either

766
00:28:56,230 --> 00:28:54,159
passionate defenses or the subjects or

767
00:28:57,990 --> 00:28:56,240
wishful thinking a mere culprit and

768
00:28:59,590 --> 00:28:58,000
we'll remove it from our course list

769
00:29:01,350 --> 00:28:59,600
forthwith

770
00:29:03,029 --> 00:29:01,360
no such luck

771
00:29:06,470 --> 00:29:03,039
we heard back from four institutions

772
00:29:08,950 --> 00:29:06,480
rmit murdoch uts and charleston

773
00:29:10,950 --> 00:29:08,960
sydney union edith cohen university both

774
00:29:13,510 --> 00:29:10,960
promised to get back to us but neither

775
00:29:15,190 --> 00:29:13,520
did macquarie uni got back to us only

776
00:29:16,389 --> 00:29:15,200
recently two months after we'd

777
00:29:18,149 --> 00:29:16,399
approached them

778
00:29:20,470 --> 00:29:18,159
only the dean of the faculty of science

779
00:29:22,230 --> 00:29:20,480
at charles sturt responded at length and

780
00:29:23,750 --> 00:29:22,240
engaged in further correspondence we

781
00:29:25,430 --> 00:29:23,760
thank him for that

782
00:29:26,789 --> 00:29:25,440
the rest of the responses were largely

783
00:29:28,230 --> 00:29:26,799
perfunctory

784
00:29:29,110 --> 00:29:28,240
basically saying we know what we're

785
00:29:30,549 --> 00:29:29,120
doing

786
00:29:32,070 --> 00:29:30,559
and that the courses meet the current

787
00:29:33,269 --> 00:29:32,080
standards

788
00:29:35,110 --> 00:29:33,279
for instance

789
00:29:38,470 --> 00:29:35,120
murdoch university's chiropractic

790
00:29:41,350 --> 00:29:38,480
program meets the demanding standards of

791
00:29:43,830 --> 00:29:41,360
the council on chiropractic education

792
00:29:46,310 --> 00:29:43,840
murdoch uni cited the chiropractic board

793
00:29:49,110 --> 00:29:46,320
of australia as a new national body

794
00:29:50,870 --> 00:29:49,120
overseeing professional regulation

795
00:29:52,950 --> 00:29:50,880
the university of newcastle which didn't

796
00:29:54,549 --> 00:29:52,960
bother to get back to us has published a

797
00:29:57,190 --> 00:29:54,559
statement on his website

798
00:29:59,830 --> 00:29:57,200
quote these therapies have been selected

799
00:30:01,590 --> 00:29:59,840
because of burgeoning community interest

800
00:30:02,950 --> 00:30:01,600
and usage of these complementary

801
00:30:05,669 --> 00:30:02,960
therapies

802
00:30:07,909 --> 00:30:05,679
i think that means market forces

803
00:30:10,149 --> 00:30:07,919
one response in defense of running such

804
00:30:12,630 --> 00:30:10,159
courses suggested that the students were

805
00:30:14,470 --> 00:30:12,640
sincere in their beliefs

806
00:30:15,590 --> 00:30:14,480
creationists are sincere in their

807
00:30:17,990 --> 00:30:15,600
beliefs

808
00:30:19,190 --> 00:30:18,000
ufo proponents are sincere in their

809
00:30:22,389 --> 00:30:19,200
beliefs

810
00:30:24,549 --> 00:30:22,399
all eccentric individuals in this world

811
00:30:26,389 --> 00:30:24,559
are sincere in their beliefs

812
00:30:28,710 --> 00:30:26,399
anyway despite the protestations of

813
00:30:30,789 --> 00:30:28,720
those who bothered to reply it is still

814
00:30:33,190 --> 00:30:30,799
evident that under the imprimatur of

815
00:30:36,470 --> 00:30:33,200
universities and their reputation for

816
00:30:38,470 --> 00:30:36,480
academic privity and accuracy the public

817
00:30:40,870 --> 00:30:38,480
students and no doubt many academics

818
00:30:42,310 --> 00:30:40,880
would regard these areas of activity as

819
00:30:43,750 --> 00:30:42,320
having been endorsed by such

820
00:30:45,430 --> 00:30:43,760
institutions

821
00:30:47,430 --> 00:30:45,440
no matter how much the subject is

822
00:30:49,990 --> 00:30:47,440
encased in references to research and

823
00:30:53,029 --> 00:30:50,000
evidence the view is that these areas

824
00:30:55,269 --> 00:30:53,039
have been given the seal of approval

825
00:30:57,510 --> 00:30:55,279
and in many instances that is exactly

826
00:30:59,830 --> 00:30:57,520
what has happened the fact that several

827
00:31:01,750 --> 00:30:59,840
universities have set up clinics in

828
00:31:04,149 --> 00:31:01,760
acupuncture chiropractic chinese

829
00:31:06,149 --> 00:31:04,159
medicine and naturopathy to treat

830
00:31:08,230 --> 00:31:06,159
students staff and the public

831
00:31:10,870 --> 00:31:08,240
is indication enough that this is not a

832
00:31:11,990 --> 00:31:10,880
moot point but a statement that yes they

833
00:31:15,110 --> 00:31:12,000
are proven

834
00:31:17,430 --> 00:31:15,120
despite the fact that they are not

835
00:31:19,190 --> 00:31:17,440
do geology courses teach dowsing

836
00:31:20,549 --> 00:31:19,200
the paleontology courses teach

837
00:31:23,669 --> 00:31:20,559
creationism

838
00:31:25,909 --> 00:31:23,679
do astronomy causes teach astrology

839
00:31:27,430 --> 00:31:25,919
so why teach homeopathy in medical

840
00:31:29,750 --> 00:31:27,440
courses

841
00:31:31,669 --> 00:31:29,760
universities need to seriously justify

842
00:31:33,990 --> 00:31:31,679
the inclusion of such courses not on the

843
00:31:36,470 --> 00:31:34,000
basis of deference to some internal

844
00:31:38,230 --> 00:31:36,480
industry standards bodies but by

845
00:31:39,350 --> 00:31:38,240
applying a little critical thinking for

846
00:31:41,029 --> 00:31:39,360
themselves

847
00:31:43,669 --> 00:31:41,039
and really seeing if any of these

848
00:31:45,590 --> 00:31:43,679
practices are evidence-based

849
00:31:47,830 --> 00:31:45,600
just like they do with anomalous claims

850
00:31:49,590 --> 00:31:47,840
in physics or chemistry or archaeology

851
00:31:51,990 --> 00:31:49,600
or any other science

852
00:31:53,430 --> 00:31:52,000
if something seems out of the ordinary

853
00:31:55,830 --> 00:31:53,440
and a lot of the claims made by

854
00:31:57,909 --> 00:31:55,840
practitioners are out of the ordinary

855
00:31:59,509 --> 00:31:57,919
then universities must investigate

856
00:32:00,870 --> 00:31:59,519
before they offer their stamp of

857
00:32:02,710 --> 00:32:00,880
approval

858
00:32:05,110 --> 00:32:02,720
by and large we feel the response to our

859
00:32:06,789 --> 00:32:05,120
enquiries has been pathetic and worrying

860
00:32:08,630 --> 00:32:06,799
to say the least

861
00:32:11,029 --> 00:32:08,640
finally it's interesting to note that a

862
00:32:14,070 --> 00:32:11,039
case has been put to have rmit's

863
00:32:16,389 --> 00:32:14,080
chiropractic pediatric clinic closed

864
00:32:18,710 --> 00:32:16,399
because it is quote teaching

865
00:32:21,269 --> 00:32:18,720
inappropriate and potentially dangerous

866
00:32:24,230 --> 00:32:21,279
techniques that target pregnant women

867
00:32:26,789 --> 00:32:24,240
babies infants and children

868
00:32:28,789 --> 00:32:26,799
loretta marin who has investigated many

869
00:32:30,789 --> 00:32:28,799
dubious medical treatments

870
00:32:32,950 --> 00:32:30,799
has done a major report criticizing

871
00:32:35,029 --> 00:32:32,960
chiropractic's claims

872
00:32:37,350 --> 00:32:35,039
statements from many leading scientists

873
00:32:38,710 --> 00:32:37,360
and experts both local and overseas back

874
00:32:41,190 --> 00:32:38,720
her up

875
00:32:43,830 --> 00:32:41,200
she wants the clinic closed until

876
00:32:46,310 --> 00:32:43,840
such time as evidence can be produced

877
00:32:48,310 --> 00:32:46,320
that these treatments support the claims

878
00:32:50,149 --> 00:32:48,320
made by the course lecturers

879
00:32:58,470 --> 00:32:50,159
produce the evidence

880
00:33:02,950 --> 00:33:00,710
did you know jeff wag participated in an

881
00:33:04,710 --> 00:33:02,960
alien psychic challenge did you know

882
00:33:06,310 --> 00:33:04,720
that george robb is an interstellar

883
00:33:07,990 --> 00:33:06,320
singing sensation

884
00:33:09,909 --> 00:33:08,000
for these and other stories you won't

885
00:33:11,590 --> 00:33:09,919
hear on the skeptic zone go to the

886
00:33:15,029 --> 00:33:11,600
bowling brook babbler that's

887
00:33:19,750 --> 00:33:16,789
if you have any doubts just remember

888
00:33:21,750 --> 00:33:19,760
this the sgu couldn't debunk any of our

889
00:33:24,070 --> 00:33:21,760
stories even when we offer them five

890
00:33:27,509 --> 00:33:24,080
dollars so read the bowling book babbler

891
00:33:32,470 --> 00:33:27,519
for the unbelievable truth that's www

892
00:33:39,750 --> 00:33:32,480
dot b o l i n g b r o o k

893
00:33:47,269 --> 00:33:42,710
now it's time for dr rachie reports with

894
00:33:50,789 --> 00:33:49,430
hello listeners and welcome to dr reggie

895
00:33:52,549 --> 00:33:50,799
reports

896
00:33:54,950 --> 00:33:52,559
an easy way to make products sound

897
00:33:57,590 --> 00:33:54,960
high-tech and scientific is to associate

898
00:33:59,509 --> 00:33:57,600
them with words that sound sciencey i

899
00:34:01,350 --> 00:33:59,519
call this name out of a hat science

900
00:34:03,190 --> 00:34:01,360
because the results make about as much

901
00:34:05,190 --> 00:34:03,200
sense as randomly pulling scientific

902
00:34:06,470 --> 00:34:05,200
terms out of a hat and sprinkling them

903
00:34:08,710 --> 00:34:06,480
on a page

904
00:34:10,869 --> 00:34:08,720
one industry particularly guilty of such

905
00:34:12,069 --> 00:34:10,879
crimes against science is the cosmetics

906
00:34:14,149 --> 00:34:12,079
caper

907
00:34:16,629 --> 00:34:14,159
indeed choice magazine made an example

908
00:34:20,389 --> 00:34:16,639
of l'oreal el vive for exactly this

909
00:34:22,470 --> 00:34:20,399
behaviour at the 2009 shonkee awards the

910
00:34:24,790 --> 00:34:22,480
consumer watchdog was quick to remind us

911
00:34:28,230 --> 00:34:24,800
however that l'oreal are by no means

912
00:34:29,990 --> 00:34:28,240
alone in blinding us with dodgy science

913
00:34:32,149 --> 00:34:30,000
they noted terms such as clinically

914
00:34:34,470 --> 00:34:32,159
proven dermo clinical trials and in

915
00:34:36,230 --> 00:34:34,480
vitro testing are littered throughout

916
00:34:38,310 --> 00:34:36,240
cosmetics advertising

917
00:34:40,629 --> 00:34:38,320
and to highlight their disdain choice

918
00:34:43,510 --> 00:34:40,639
made a hilarious parody video for a

919
00:34:45,270 --> 00:34:43,520
product they called pro faecal b

920
00:34:47,589 --> 00:34:45,280
if you watch the video online and you

921
00:34:49,909 --> 00:34:47,599
can find the links in my blog post watch

922
00:34:51,750 --> 00:34:49,919
it to the very end where choice really

923
00:34:53,030 --> 00:34:51,760
tells us what they think of cosmetics

924
00:34:54,710 --> 00:34:53,040
companies

925
00:34:56,950 --> 00:34:54,720
but the hijacking of scientific

926
00:34:59,670 --> 00:34:56,960
terminology and technology is certainly

927
00:35:01,670 --> 00:34:59,680
not confined to cosmetics products

928
00:35:04,069 --> 00:35:01,680
every second product advertised on

929
00:35:06,630 --> 00:35:04,079
television these days seems to claim to

930
00:35:09,349 --> 00:35:06,640
be scientifically tested or validated

931
00:35:11,190 --> 00:35:09,359
often in a clinical trial the results in

932
00:35:12,150 --> 00:35:11,200
such fine print that you can hardly read

933
00:35:13,910 --> 00:35:12,160
them

934
00:35:15,589 --> 00:35:13,920
and marketing people know that dusting

935
00:35:18,470 --> 00:35:15,599
your product with a light sprinkling of

936
00:35:20,470 --> 00:35:18,480
quantum or clinically tested can be a

937
00:35:22,950 --> 00:35:20,480
lucrative exercise

938
00:35:25,589 --> 00:35:22,960
and hey if it sounds sciencey and it

939
00:35:28,470 --> 00:35:25,599
looks technical then it must work right

940
00:35:30,550 --> 00:35:28,480
who needs that pesky scientific evidence

941
00:35:32,550 --> 00:35:30,560
so hair testing is a very good example

942
00:35:34,630 --> 00:35:32,560
of this it's actually a legitimate

943
00:35:36,950 --> 00:35:34,640
scientific technique and it's used in

944
00:35:39,990 --> 00:35:36,960
drug testing in sport and also for the

945
00:35:42,230 --> 00:35:40,000
detection of heavy metals in poisoning

946
00:35:43,990 --> 00:35:42,240
the concept is straightforward blood

947
00:35:46,230 --> 00:35:44,000
supply from around the hair follicle

948
00:35:47,910 --> 00:35:46,240
provides nutrients and other extraneous

949
00:35:50,550 --> 00:35:47,920
material to the hair

950
00:35:52,310 --> 00:35:50,560
including any ingested drugs medications

951
00:35:54,310 --> 00:35:52,320
and heavy metals and then these are

952
00:35:56,230 --> 00:35:54,320
absorbed into the hair shaft and carried

953
00:35:58,310 --> 00:35:56,240
along with growth

954
00:36:00,310 --> 00:35:58,320
now through a complex process of enzyme

955
00:36:01,910 --> 00:36:00,320
or acid digestion to break the chemical

956
00:36:03,589 --> 00:36:01,920
bonds between the hair

957
00:36:05,589 --> 00:36:03,599
and various high-end detection

958
00:36:07,030 --> 00:36:05,599
techniques such as mass spectrometry and

959
00:36:08,470 --> 00:36:07,040
hplc

960
00:36:10,150 --> 00:36:08,480
the substances of interest can be

961
00:36:12,390 --> 00:36:10,160
sensitively measured

962
00:36:14,310 --> 00:36:12,400
but as you might expect hair testing in

963
00:36:16,310 --> 00:36:14,320
alternative medicine doesn't bother with

964
00:36:18,710 --> 00:36:16,320
all the fiddly science steps described

965
00:36:20,390 --> 00:36:18,720
above and by the way i've only described

966
00:36:22,310 --> 00:36:20,400
just a few

967
00:36:24,230 --> 00:36:22,320
rather you just need a machine with some

968
00:36:26,790 --> 00:36:24,240
flickering dials some flashing lights

969
00:36:28,870 --> 00:36:26,800
and a sprinkling of quantum

970
00:36:30,630 --> 00:36:28,880
now as it happens i first came across

971
00:36:33,510 --> 00:36:30,640
one of these machines at a well-being

972
00:36:35,430 --> 00:36:33,520
festival where it was promoted as quote

973
00:36:37,030 --> 00:36:35,440
the affordable way to find out what is

974
00:36:39,430 --> 00:36:37,040
making you sick

975
00:36:40,470 --> 00:36:39,440
for 195 dollars which is apparently

976
00:36:42,230 --> 00:36:40,480
affordable

977
00:36:44,550 --> 00:36:42,240
a small lock of hair was placed in an

978
00:36:46,630 --> 00:36:44,560
empty beaker lights flashed dials

979
00:36:48,790 --> 00:36:46,640
flickered and a list of food allergies

980
00:36:50,870 --> 00:36:48,800
appeared on a printer

981
00:36:52,790 --> 00:36:50,880
now apparently if i avoided these foods

982
00:36:55,750 --> 00:36:52,800
i could cure a wide range of ills

983
00:36:57,829 --> 00:36:55,760
including such things as eczema asthma

984
00:36:59,990 --> 00:36:57,839
irritable bowel syndrome headaches

985
00:37:02,230 --> 00:37:00,000
premenstrual tension flatulence fatigue

986
00:37:04,550 --> 00:37:02,240
and the list goes on

987
00:37:06,310 --> 00:37:04,560
and when it came to sensitivity this

988
00:37:08,550 --> 00:37:06,320
machine must have been using an awful

989
00:37:10,710 --> 00:37:08,560
lot of quantum because according to the

990
00:37:12,790 --> 00:37:10,720
pamphlet i was given it could tell if i

991
00:37:13,910 --> 00:37:12,800
was allergic to coca-cola or the diet

992
00:37:16,230 --> 00:37:13,920
variety

993
00:37:18,710 --> 00:37:16,240
and even differentiate between allergies

994
00:37:20,710 --> 00:37:18,720
across different brands of chocolate

995
00:37:23,030 --> 00:37:20,720
so being slightly skeptical about these

996
00:37:25,589 --> 00:37:23,040
claims my colleague decided to put the

997
00:37:27,910 --> 00:37:25,599
technology to the test by sending via

998
00:37:30,390 --> 00:37:27,920
mail order two pieces of hair from the

999
00:37:31,910 --> 00:37:30,400
same person but identified as from

1000
00:37:34,230 --> 00:37:31,920
different people

1001
00:37:36,230 --> 00:37:34,240
the results came back as predicted the

1002
00:37:37,990 --> 00:37:36,240
profiles of the two people's allergies

1003
00:37:40,310 --> 00:37:38,000
were totally different

1004
00:37:42,550 --> 00:37:40,320
except for one interesting thing

1005
00:37:43,990 --> 00:37:42,560
apparently both persons were allergic to

1006
00:37:45,910 --> 00:37:44,000
carrots

1007
00:37:48,470 --> 00:37:45,920
so obviously this is not a rigorous

1008
00:37:50,550 --> 00:37:48,480
scientific test but such divergent

1009
00:37:52,710 --> 00:37:50,560
preliminary results do not instill me

1010
00:37:55,829 --> 00:37:52,720
with confidence about the accuracy of

1011
00:37:57,910 --> 00:37:55,839
this machine or indeed that my 195

1012
00:37:59,670 --> 00:37:57,920
dollars was well spent

1013
00:38:01,750 --> 00:37:59,680
perhaps a better name for this quantum

1014
00:38:03,589 --> 00:38:01,760
machine would be a random allergy

1015
00:38:05,270 --> 00:38:03,599
generating machine

1016
00:38:07,190 --> 00:38:05,280
now i don't pretend to understand

1017
00:38:09,030 --> 00:38:07,200
quantum mechanics and according to

1018
00:38:10,950 --> 00:38:09,040
physicist richard feynman who has been

1019
00:38:12,630 --> 00:38:10,960
credited with saying quote

1020
00:38:14,950 --> 00:38:12,640
it is safe to say that no one

1021
00:38:16,630 --> 00:38:14,960
understands quantum mechanics apparently

1022
00:38:17,910 --> 00:38:16,640
i'm not alone

1023
00:38:19,670 --> 00:38:17,920
now beyond understanding that the

1024
00:38:21,990 --> 00:38:19,680
discipline deals with the world of atoms

1025
00:38:24,150 --> 00:38:22,000
and subatomic particles i'm as clueless

1026
00:38:25,910 --> 00:38:24,160
as the next bloke but i do know one

1027
00:38:27,190 --> 00:38:25,920
thing i know what's not quantum

1028
00:38:29,430 --> 00:38:27,200
mechanics

1029
00:38:32,069 --> 00:38:29,440
it seems the people with the 195 dollars

1030
00:38:33,670 --> 00:38:32,079
a pop magic hair testing quantum machine

1031
00:38:36,230 --> 00:38:33,680
might need to step up for their nobel

1032
00:38:38,069 --> 00:38:36,240
prize in physics or they're just trying

1033
00:38:39,349 --> 00:38:38,079
to blind us with science

1034
00:38:41,510 --> 00:38:39,359
you decide

1035
00:38:43,589 --> 00:38:41,520
this week's dr richie reports has also

1036
00:38:46,230 --> 00:38:43,599
been published as a blog as part of the

1037
00:38:47,430 --> 00:38:46,240
fairfax newspapers blogs called national

1038
00:38:50,150 --> 00:38:47,440
times

1039
00:38:51,829 --> 00:38:50,160
you can find it through the age wa today

1040
00:38:53,829 --> 00:38:51,839
the brisbane times and the sydney

1041
00:38:56,310 --> 00:38:53,839
morning herald if you search for the

1042
00:38:58,630 --> 00:38:56,320
national times and skeptic science i'm a

1043
00:39:00,630 --> 00:38:58,640
guest blogger for this week and if you

1044
00:39:02,870 --> 00:39:00,640
have some time please head over so you

1045
00:39:05,190 --> 00:39:02,880
can increase my page hits and also if

1046
00:39:07,349 --> 00:39:05,200
you feel like it leave me a comment

1047
00:39:11,270 --> 00:39:07,359
and until next time this has been dr

1048
00:39:16,310 --> 00:39:13,510
dr rachel dunlop is one of australia's

1049
00:39:18,230 --> 00:39:16,320
foremost media commentators in matters

1050
00:39:19,190 --> 00:39:18,240
concerning so-called alternative

1051
00:39:21,670 --> 00:39:19,200
medicine

1052
00:39:23,990 --> 00:39:21,680
she has appeared on national radio and

1053
00:39:26,310 --> 00:39:24,000
national television dr raichi is

1054
00:39:27,670 --> 00:39:26,320
available for interviews and you can

1055
00:39:29,710 --> 00:39:27,680
contact her

1056
00:39:37,829 --> 00:39:29,720
at rachel

1057
00:39:42,069 --> 00:39:40,829
hi i'm a skeptic and i'm

1058
00:39:44,390 --> 00:39:42,079
bigfoot uh

1059
00:39:46,790 --> 00:39:44,400
yeah i'm pretty sure you're not you shut

1060
00:39:49,510 --> 00:39:46,800
up y'all i'm bigfoot and i'm running

1061
00:39:51,829 --> 00:39:49,520
wild all over the u.s

1062
00:39:53,589 --> 00:39:51,839
well you're not very well documented

1063
00:39:56,550 --> 00:39:53,599
says you

1064
00:39:59,349 --> 00:39:56,560
i left tracks possum innards all over

1065
00:40:02,069 --> 00:39:59,359
the place well my name's blake smith and

1066
00:40:05,430 --> 00:40:02,079
along with my co-hosts benjamin radford

1067
00:40:07,270 --> 00:40:05,440
and dr karen stolzno we take a skeptical

1068
00:40:09,750 --> 00:40:07,280
look at the evidence for all kinds of

1069
00:40:11,510 --> 00:40:09,760
monsters on our show monster talk

1070
00:40:14,390 --> 00:40:11,520
other monsters

1071
00:40:16,870 --> 00:40:14,400
like who well our show's pretty new but

1072
00:40:19,750 --> 00:40:16,880
we plan to take a look at lake monsters

1073
00:40:23,670 --> 00:40:19,760
sea monsters mothman the chupacabra the

1074
00:40:26,550 --> 00:40:23,680
yeti orang pendak ghosts

1075
00:40:28,069 --> 00:40:26,560
goblins zombies demons and we might even

1076
00:40:30,310 --> 00:40:28,079
check out the monster that lurks under

1077
00:40:32,950 --> 00:40:30,320
your bed or in your closet hey

1078
00:40:35,349 --> 00:40:32,960
you didn't say my name in that list

1079
00:40:36,870 --> 00:40:35,359
honestly we've already done two episodes

1080
00:40:39,910 --> 00:40:36,880
on bigfoot but the topic does keep

1081
00:40:41,829 --> 00:40:39,920
coming up hey i know where there's a big

1082
00:40:44,069 --> 00:40:41,839
old monster

1083
00:40:46,230 --> 00:40:44,079
where in my pants

1084
00:40:48,069 --> 00:40:46,240
don't go there instead go to

1085
00:40:49,750 --> 00:40:48,079
monstertalk.org

1086
00:40:53,190 --> 00:40:49,760
or look up monster talk on your favorite

1087
00:40:59,750 --> 00:40:53,200
podcast aggregator you mean itunes shut

1088
00:41:08,069 --> 00:41:03,910
here's maynard's spooky action

1089
00:41:11,910 --> 00:41:09,910
well have we got something for you today

1090
00:41:13,750 --> 00:41:11,920
i tell you we've got mike dawson here

1091
00:41:15,589 --> 00:41:13,760
i'm in a room that i'll just let you

1092
00:41:17,430 --> 00:41:15,599
describe it mike i mean i've seen so

1093
00:41:20,230 --> 00:41:17,440
i've been in some unusual rooms and this

1094
00:41:21,910 --> 00:41:20,240
is uh one of the most unusual what is

1095
00:41:23,109 --> 00:41:21,920
this room full of

1096
00:41:25,349 --> 00:41:23,119
it's supposed to be a dining room but

1097
00:41:27,750 --> 00:41:25,359
it's absolutely full of casts of uh

1098
00:41:29,750 --> 00:41:27,760
museum quality dinosaur bits

1099
00:41:31,990 --> 00:41:29,760
mainly skulls

1100
00:41:33,109 --> 00:41:32,000
and skulls from all sorts of periods

1101
00:41:34,710 --> 00:41:33,119
okay i'm just going to pick one at

1102
00:41:36,150 --> 00:41:34,720
random i'll just tap it so the listener

1103
00:41:37,270 --> 00:41:36,160
can hear

1104
00:41:39,030 --> 00:41:37,280
and

1105
00:41:41,030 --> 00:41:39,040
that's the teeth i was flicking then

1106
00:41:43,270 --> 00:41:41,040
what is that describe the size and what

1107
00:41:45,430 --> 00:41:43,280
animal it was that's a fighter saw which

1108
00:41:47,670 --> 00:41:45,440
was a version of a crocodile it wasn't a

1109
00:41:49,190 --> 00:41:47,680
crocodile but similar to a crocodile

1110
00:41:52,870 --> 00:41:49,200
from the uh that would be triassic

1111
00:41:55,190 --> 00:41:52,880
period so that's 250 million year old

1112
00:41:56,630 --> 00:41:55,200
it's from america that one and these are

1113
00:41:58,630 --> 00:41:56,640
casts of

1114
00:41:59,589 --> 00:41:58,640
diggings that just to explain how you

1115
00:42:02,470 --> 00:41:59,599
got it

1116
00:42:04,069 --> 00:42:02,480
well i got that from a museum they're um

1117
00:42:05,829 --> 00:42:04,079
normally uh

1118
00:42:07,349 --> 00:42:05,839
excavated on a dig site and then they're

1119
00:42:08,710 --> 00:42:07,359
reconstructed put together and then

1120
00:42:10,150 --> 00:42:08,720
they'll do a cast of them which is

1121
00:42:12,230 --> 00:42:10,160
normally what you see in a museum it's

1122
00:42:14,390 --> 00:42:12,240
not the original it's normally a cast

1123
00:42:16,870 --> 00:42:14,400
and i swap with museums for other casts

1124
00:42:17,990 --> 00:42:16,880
i've got or buy them or

1125
00:42:20,390 --> 00:42:18,000
you know

1126
00:42:22,550 --> 00:42:20,400
accumulate them in whatever way i can

1127
00:42:25,829 --> 00:42:22,560
and that's a cast of uh

1128
00:42:27,910 --> 00:42:25,839
of a phytosaur so how many people

1129
00:42:28,870 --> 00:42:27,920
do you run into on the internet and

1130
00:42:30,710 --> 00:42:28,880
around

1131
00:42:33,589 --> 00:42:30,720
the place anywhere that are really into

1132
00:42:36,470 --> 00:42:33,599
paleontology bone casts it's quite a few

1133
00:42:37,589 --> 00:42:36,480
really quite a few and what with all the

1134
00:42:40,309 --> 00:42:37,599
collectors we talk to there's a

1135
00:42:42,230 --> 00:42:40,319
fascination and intense interest

1136
00:42:44,390 --> 00:42:42,240
what fascinates you about

1137
00:42:46,550 --> 00:42:44,400
dinosaur skulls just a little kid that

1138
00:42:48,790 --> 00:42:46,560
never grew up i was writing to dinosaurs

1139
00:42:50,069 --> 00:42:48,800
and i was little then i discovered women

1140
00:42:51,990 --> 00:42:50,079
and thought there's no future in that

1141
00:42:53,510 --> 00:42:52,000
and i've gone back to my first love now

1142
00:42:56,150 --> 00:42:53,520
do you remember what the first time you

1143
00:42:57,589 --> 00:42:56,160
saw a dinosaur on the television or or

1144
00:42:59,349 --> 00:42:57,599
in print do you remember what it was we

1145
00:43:00,710 --> 00:42:59,359
went hey that's cool

1146
00:43:02,470 --> 00:43:00,720
lipton tea

1147
00:43:04,950 --> 00:43:02,480
had collector's cards

1148
00:43:06,790 --> 00:43:04,960
and there was a silver triceratops

1149
00:43:08,390 --> 00:43:06,800
and i thought how long's this been going

1150
00:43:09,990 --> 00:43:08,400
on i've got to know more about a silver

1151
00:43:11,750 --> 00:43:10,000
tricera i could even say that i call the

1152
00:43:13,670 --> 00:43:11,760
tricera pots

1153
00:43:15,190 --> 00:43:13,680
and uh i just got hooked and then i

1154
00:43:16,390 --> 00:43:15,200
discovered t-rex so that was it good

1155
00:43:19,349 --> 00:43:16,400
night nice

1156
00:43:21,109 --> 00:43:19,359
now we've got a t-rex skull here on our

1157
00:43:22,950 --> 00:43:21,119
right is that correct that's right yep

1158
00:43:24,630 --> 00:43:22,960
now what would be the age of that and

1159
00:43:26,230 --> 00:43:24,640
where about would that have come from

1160
00:43:29,030 --> 00:43:26,240
that's uh the one that barnum brown

1161
00:43:30,309 --> 00:43:29,040
found in 1907 that's north america in

1162
00:43:32,470 --> 00:43:30,319
montana

1163
00:43:35,349 --> 00:43:32,480
and um it's not a big one that there's

1164
00:43:37,109 --> 00:43:35,359
two types there's grace isle and um

1165
00:43:39,109 --> 00:43:37,119
robust that's a gray soil version so

1166
00:43:41,349 --> 00:43:39,119
that is possibly a male the males were

1167
00:43:42,550 --> 00:43:41,359
smaller than the females

1168
00:43:44,309 --> 00:43:42,560
so that's from the american museum in

1169
00:43:45,030 --> 00:43:44,319
natural history that one

1170
00:43:47,990 --> 00:43:45,040
and

1171
00:43:49,349 --> 00:43:48,000
it it's um look what's its size i mean

1172
00:43:51,670 --> 00:43:49,359
describe oh look this is what it sounds

1173
00:43:53,589 --> 00:43:51,680
like when you tap it

1174
00:43:54,790 --> 00:43:53,599
so it's a fairly sizable solid thing

1175
00:43:56,630 --> 00:43:54,800
what is this what's the size and

1176
00:43:58,950 --> 00:43:56,640
dimensions of that the skull is about

1177
00:44:01,349 --> 00:43:58,960
five foot long the animal

1178
00:44:03,270 --> 00:44:01,359
i should talk in metric the animal was

1179
00:44:04,390 --> 00:44:03,280
14 meters long

1180
00:44:05,510 --> 00:44:04,400
was

1181
00:44:07,510 --> 00:44:05,520
up to

1182
00:44:09,190 --> 00:44:07,520
seven to eight ton

1183
00:44:12,069 --> 00:44:09,200
there is most recent one i never noticed

1184
00:44:14,710 --> 00:44:12,079
about is called sill um it was 30 bigger

1185
00:44:16,710 --> 00:44:14,720
than this one wow so it's a and it just

1186
00:44:19,589 --> 00:44:16,720
dominates the room you've got here there

1187
00:44:20,950 --> 00:44:19,599
are so many things and in the case just

1188
00:44:22,870 --> 00:44:20,960
to make it just a little bit extra

1189
00:44:24,870 --> 00:44:22,880
creepy in case the dinosaur

1190
00:44:28,069 --> 00:44:24,880
jaws weren't scary enough for you we've

1191
00:44:29,589 --> 00:44:28,079
got a selection of hominid skulls now so

1192
00:44:31,190 --> 00:44:29,599
yeah so they're not the actual skull

1193
00:44:32,550 --> 00:44:31,200
that was around at the time they've been

1194
00:44:34,309 --> 00:44:32,560
uh oh you want material is it just a

1195
00:44:35,829 --> 00:44:34,319
resin what do they use for them most of

1196
00:44:37,510 --> 00:44:35,839
the threads and some it's plaster i've

1197
00:44:39,349 --> 00:44:37,520
copied some in plaster in fact i've done

1198
00:44:41,430 --> 00:44:39,359
some in reason too but the majority of

1199
00:44:43,510 --> 00:44:41,440
the stuff in this resin

1200
00:44:45,190 --> 00:44:43,520
it's a harder wearing plaster you know

1201
00:44:47,349 --> 00:44:45,200
you drop it at smashers with the resin

1202
00:44:48,470 --> 00:44:47,359
that doesn't it's easier to handle it's

1203
00:44:50,550 --> 00:44:48,480
lighter too

1204
00:44:52,230 --> 00:44:50,560
it looks it's an interesting obsession

1205
00:44:54,150 --> 00:44:52,240
and i'm just wondering

1206
00:44:56,069 --> 00:44:54,160
to me looking at them from an outside

1207
00:44:58,230 --> 00:44:56,079
not a collector great collection of

1208
00:45:00,150 --> 00:44:58,240
skulls but i'm just wondering which

1209
00:45:02,309 --> 00:45:00,160
would be your favorite and why like i

1210
00:45:04,550 --> 00:45:02,319
like the one on the bottom right there

1211
00:45:07,109 --> 00:45:04,560
because it's got that spooky

1212
00:45:08,550 --> 00:45:07,119
cavity look in the orbit of the eyes but

1213
00:45:10,390 --> 00:45:08,560
uh what's your favorite from this

1214
00:45:12,470 --> 00:45:10,400
selection here and why because to the

1215
00:45:14,630 --> 00:45:12,480
outside they look fairly similar so yeah

1216
00:45:16,470 --> 00:45:14,640
what makes one stand out for you i'd say

1217
00:45:19,030 --> 00:45:16,480
uh this collection here possibly the

1218
00:45:21,829 --> 00:45:19,040
black skull the second on the left there

1219
00:45:24,550 --> 00:45:21,839
it looks very primitive but it's got the

1220
00:45:28,069 --> 00:45:24,560
the classic low forehead that's it's not

1221
00:45:29,670 --> 00:45:28,079
far removed from mate very old that's um

1222
00:45:31,910 --> 00:45:29,680
australopithecus

1223
00:45:33,750 --> 00:45:31,920
the one next to the little tom child

1224
00:45:34,870 --> 00:45:33,760
part of the skull is eroded away and you

1225
00:45:36,950 --> 00:45:34,880
can see the

1226
00:45:39,270 --> 00:45:36,960
shape of the brain where

1227
00:45:41,030 --> 00:45:39,280
clay has filled the brain case and

1228
00:45:42,790 --> 00:45:41,040
hardened and then the bone is rotted

1229
00:45:44,550 --> 00:45:42,800
away and it's left the impression of the

1230
00:45:46,150 --> 00:45:44,560
brain i like that one

1231
00:45:48,150 --> 00:45:46,160
and the thing to remember for you to

1232
00:45:50,790 --> 00:45:48,160
make a cast of all these that's means

1233
00:45:52,950 --> 00:45:50,800
that all these creatures have had to die

1234
00:45:54,550 --> 00:45:52,960
in the correct circumstances to cause a

1235
00:45:55,990 --> 00:45:54,560
fossil which would be

1236
00:45:58,309 --> 00:45:56,000
it's pretty rare it's pretty rare for an

1237
00:46:01,109 --> 00:45:58,319
animal to fossil fossilize conditions

1238
00:46:02,790 --> 00:46:01,119
got to be right it's got to be um

1239
00:46:05,190 --> 00:46:02,800
preferably not scavenged by other

1240
00:46:06,790 --> 00:46:05,200
animals and then covered fairly quickly

1241
00:46:08,390 --> 00:46:06,800
with the flood water

1242
00:46:09,510 --> 00:46:08,400
normally or sand

1243
00:46:10,550 --> 00:46:09,520
and then the conditions have got to be

1244
00:46:12,950 --> 00:46:10,560
right for

1245
00:46:14,790 --> 00:46:12,960
minerals to seep into the bones the

1246
00:46:17,270 --> 00:46:14,800
actual bone is still there but the

1247
00:46:19,670 --> 00:46:17,280
little gaps in between the bone

1248
00:46:22,230 --> 00:46:19,680
are filled with um minerals flooded in

1249
00:46:23,829 --> 00:46:22,240
by by flood water so you got that's why

1250
00:46:25,430 --> 00:46:23,839
they're so heavy you've got the minerals

1251
00:46:27,589 --> 00:46:25,440
filling the little gaps in the bone but

1252
00:46:30,309 --> 00:46:27,599
the actual bone's still there

1253
00:46:32,550 --> 00:46:30,319
and i thought the t-rex the theme uh i

1254
00:46:34,069 --> 00:46:32,560
thought the male t-rex skull was a big

1255
00:46:35,030 --> 00:46:34,079
thing but then we go into your dining

1256
00:46:38,790 --> 00:46:35,040
room and

1257
00:46:40,309 --> 00:46:38,800
get under the house um what is this here

1258
00:46:42,950 --> 00:46:40,319
look you thought the noise the other one

1259
00:46:45,109 --> 00:46:42,960
made was big listen to this

1260
00:46:46,630 --> 00:46:45,119
that's a biggie what what am i staring

1261
00:46:48,150 --> 00:46:46,640
into the barrel of there's even a tongue

1262
00:46:50,870 --> 00:46:48,160
in this one

1263
00:46:52,390 --> 00:46:50,880
this is a reconstruction of t-rex the

1264
00:46:53,589 --> 00:46:52,400
head of a t-rex that's how it would have

1265
00:46:55,349 --> 00:46:53,599
looked in life

1266
00:46:56,790 --> 00:46:55,359
has anyone successfully worked out what

1267
00:46:58,390 --> 00:46:56,800
they might have sounded like by

1268
00:46:59,349 --> 00:46:58,400
recreating their their bone throat

1269
00:47:01,670 --> 00:46:59,359
structure

1270
00:47:03,589 --> 00:47:01,680
not really um every move you see with a

1271
00:47:04,630 --> 00:47:03,599
dinosaur with a t-rex in it they're

1272
00:47:06,069 --> 00:47:04,640
roaring and i don't think they would

1273
00:47:07,750 --> 00:47:06,079
have roared like that because to scare

1274
00:47:09,349 --> 00:47:07,760
the prey away when you're all loans

1275
00:47:10,470 --> 00:47:09,359
don't get around roaring when they're

1276
00:47:11,270 --> 00:47:10,480
hunting

1277
00:47:13,910 --> 00:47:11,280
so

1278
00:47:15,430 --> 00:47:13,920
um they would have wrought i guess but i

1279
00:47:18,150 --> 00:47:15,440
can't certain nobody knows what they

1280
00:47:21,030 --> 00:47:18,160
sounded like yeah and this is just

1281
00:47:23,349 --> 00:47:21,040
amazing uh how long have you been a

1282
00:47:24,950 --> 00:47:23,359
clicker you mentioned as a kid but this

1283
00:47:27,510 --> 00:47:24,960
this is something that takes a lot of

1284
00:47:29,990 --> 00:47:27,520
time this is something that takes um

1285
00:47:31,270 --> 00:47:30,000
almost a obsessive compulsor

1286
00:47:34,390 --> 00:47:31,280
sort of thing to be able to do because

1287
00:47:35,910 --> 00:47:34,400
you is it when you're making the resin

1288
00:47:37,829 --> 00:47:35,920
skulls there in your studio do you just

1289
00:47:40,230 --> 00:47:37,839
get in the zone and notice that oh six

1290
00:47:41,510 --> 00:47:40,240
hours have gone very much so i've been

1291
00:47:44,230 --> 00:47:41,520
playing around with it for about 20

1292
00:47:45,910 --> 00:47:44,240
years but you get obsessed with it the i

1293
00:47:47,030 --> 00:47:45,920
read some of the other days somebody

1294
00:47:48,470 --> 00:47:47,040
pointed out that if you have a

1295
00:47:50,790 --> 00:47:48,480
collection and parts of the collection

1296
00:47:52,790 --> 00:47:50,800
are in the bedroom you're obsessive what

1297
00:47:54,550 --> 00:47:52,800
parts would you put in the bedroom is it

1298
00:47:56,550 --> 00:47:54,560
bits that you've got to get to or

1299
00:47:58,230 --> 00:47:56,560
they're your favorite bits i mean is is

1300
00:47:59,270 --> 00:47:58,240
that how it works if the bits are in the

1301
00:48:00,470 --> 00:47:59,280
bedroom does that mean it's something

1302
00:48:02,550 --> 00:48:00,480
you've got to work on or is that one

1303
00:48:03,910 --> 00:48:02,560
that you can't let out your site that's

1304
00:48:05,510 --> 00:48:03,920
just convenience where you store them

1305
00:48:07,030 --> 00:48:05,520
i've got stuff stored in every room it's

1306
00:48:08,790 --> 00:48:07,040
just where there's a hole you can put

1307
00:48:10,950 --> 00:48:08,800
something in

1308
00:48:13,349 --> 00:48:10,960
and what is the process like to work on

1309
00:48:15,910 --> 00:48:13,359
them with the resin um it's

1310
00:48:17,589 --> 00:48:15,920
it's part sculptor part

1311
00:48:19,589 --> 00:48:17,599
archaeologist part

1312
00:48:21,589 --> 00:48:19,599
paleontologist it's you know part

1313
00:48:23,750 --> 00:48:21,599
psychiatrist

1314
00:48:25,030 --> 00:48:23,760
you will call it uh paleo tech uh paleo

1315
00:48:26,470 --> 00:48:25,040
technology uh

1316
00:48:28,390 --> 00:48:26,480
i'd be i wouldn't be classed as a

1317
00:48:29,510 --> 00:48:28,400
paleontologist so the class is a paleo

1318
00:48:31,190 --> 00:48:29,520
technician

1319
00:48:33,829 --> 00:48:31,200
where you're reconstructing missing bits

1320
00:48:35,990 --> 00:48:33,839
filling in bits that are missing and uh

1321
00:48:37,670 --> 00:48:36,000
a little bit of sculpturing you did more

1322
00:48:39,829 --> 00:48:37,680
sculpturing with the plaster than you do

1323
00:48:41,829 --> 00:48:39,839
with the the resin you can't sculpt the

1324
00:48:43,670 --> 00:48:41,839
version all that much so resin is mainly

1325
00:48:45,829 --> 00:48:43,680
used for a straight copy once you've got

1326
00:48:48,150 --> 00:48:45,839
a mold but with plaster you do i do a

1327
00:48:49,510 --> 00:48:48,160
bit of sculpt to work well hang on a

1328
00:48:53,109 --> 00:48:49,520
minute what we got over here this is

1329
00:48:56,470 --> 00:48:53,119
like it looks like the bottom half of a

1330
00:48:57,910 --> 00:48:56,480
giant denuded kangaroo complete with the

1331
00:49:00,230 --> 00:48:57,920
hip joints

1332
00:49:01,510 --> 00:49:00,240
this is the the hanger i better tap it

1333
00:49:04,549 --> 00:49:01,520
for the audience so can can't tap it it

1334
00:49:08,230 --> 00:49:06,230
so again fairly solid what have we got

1335
00:49:10,630 --> 00:49:08,240
here this is the hips and the legs uh

1336
00:49:12,950 --> 00:49:10,640
the basic skeleton of a

1337
00:49:15,589 --> 00:49:12,960
albertosaurus or gorgosaurus it was

1338
00:49:17,430 --> 00:49:15,599
ancestor to trx if you imagine t-rex was

1339
00:49:19,430 --> 00:49:17,440
a line this was the leopard

1340
00:49:23,030 --> 00:49:19,440
and this is just the base of the

1341
00:49:28,069 --> 00:49:25,589
is in this room okay now we i'm walking

1342
00:49:29,589 --> 00:49:28,079
through the frame that's how big it is

1343
00:49:33,510 --> 00:49:29,599
and here we have

1344
00:49:35,910 --> 00:49:33,520
a room jam packed with again more

1345
00:49:38,150 --> 00:49:35,920
dinosaur skulls including

1346
00:49:41,190 --> 00:49:38,160
well smaller than the other one

1347
00:49:43,430 --> 00:49:41,200
but that dinosaur is half laughing half

1348
00:49:45,190 --> 00:49:43,440
mocking me mike what's the story

1349
00:49:47,510 --> 00:49:45,200
that's a brachiosaurus and they do knock

1350
00:49:49,109 --> 00:49:47,520
they do uh mock you

1351
00:49:50,470 --> 00:49:49,119
um because there's nothing in the head

1352
00:49:53,910 --> 00:49:50,480
as you can see that's a skull of a

1353
00:49:56,069 --> 00:49:53,920
brachiosaurus up cast that in plaster

1354
00:49:59,270 --> 00:49:56,079
that's the skull of the gorgo sauce

1355
00:50:01,990 --> 00:49:59,280
that's in the hallway and those

1356
00:50:04,230 --> 00:50:02,000
um vertebrae sections there are the the

1357
00:50:06,870 --> 00:50:04,240
rest of it and there's leg bones and

1358
00:50:08,630 --> 00:50:06,880
stuff somewhere else arm bones wow

1359
00:50:11,190 --> 00:50:08,640
the whole skeleton's here wow those

1360
00:50:13,510 --> 00:50:11,200
boxes are full of specimens up there now

1361
00:50:14,549 --> 00:50:13,520
the room is very busy in the bone

1362
00:50:17,030 --> 00:50:14,559
department

1363
00:50:19,109 --> 00:50:17,040
now i was thinking with this earlier

1364
00:50:22,470 --> 00:50:19,119
this would be great to share with the

1365
00:50:24,470 --> 00:50:22,480
public in some way somewhere

1366
00:50:26,549 --> 00:50:24,480
is there any office from anywhere to to

1367
00:50:27,990 --> 00:50:26,559
put some of this on show even as in

1368
00:50:29,990 --> 00:50:28,000
temporary basis

1369
00:50:31,430 --> 00:50:30,000
i had a couple of uh

1370
00:50:33,430 --> 00:50:31,440
things planned and both of them fell

1371
00:50:34,870 --> 00:50:33,440
through so i'm in a situation where i'm

1372
00:50:37,190 --> 00:50:34,880
looking for someone to host this and

1373
00:50:38,630 --> 00:50:37,200
i'll share the gate with them um it is a

1374
00:50:39,750 --> 00:50:38,640
good collection and every kid on the

1375
00:50:41,589 --> 00:50:39,760
block is going to want to see it but

1376
00:50:44,870 --> 00:50:41,599
i've got to get some of where we can

1377
00:50:47,270 --> 00:50:44,880
exhibit it so if anyone's interested

1378
00:50:49,670 --> 00:50:47,280
contact me and we'll talk yeah look mike

1379
00:50:51,510 --> 00:50:49,680
dawson's got a whole stack of very

1380
00:50:53,589 --> 00:50:51,520
interesting dinosaur bones that are

1381
00:50:56,150 --> 00:50:53,599
large and will look great if you've got

1382
00:50:57,750 --> 00:50:56,160
a museum or an exhibition space that

1383
00:50:59,910 --> 00:50:57,760
would be good for them um

1384
00:51:01,829 --> 00:50:59,920
get in contact us with us here we'll put

1385
00:51:04,230 --> 00:51:01,839
you in contact with mike and maybe you

1386
00:51:06,230 --> 00:51:04,240
can cut a deal because like i mean

1387
00:51:08,790 --> 00:51:06,240
it's filling his house

1388
00:51:10,630 --> 00:51:08,800
and it looks great i mean thing is

1389
00:51:12,390 --> 00:51:10,640
when you do get kids over here do they

1390
00:51:13,990 --> 00:51:12,400
the kids have a habit of pulling things

1391
00:51:15,750 --> 00:51:14,000
off and breaking them you ever had a bit

1392
00:51:17,190 --> 00:51:15,760
of a tooth pulled off by an aggressive

1393
00:51:18,630 --> 00:51:17,200
kid

1394
00:51:20,150 --> 00:51:18,640
they have the habit of sticking their

1395
00:51:21,829 --> 00:51:20,160
head in there and feel those teeth

1396
00:51:23,750 --> 00:51:21,839
they're going to hurt themselves that's

1397
00:51:25,510 --> 00:51:23,760
what worries me yeah even though the jaw

1398
00:51:26,950 --> 00:51:25,520
doesn't move the kid could put his head

1399
00:51:28,309 --> 00:51:26,960
in there and do it so yeah so you have

1400
00:51:29,910 --> 00:51:28,319
to put a bit of a barrier around this

1401
00:51:31,589 --> 00:51:29,920
one there but it's funny yeah even

1402
00:51:33,750 --> 00:51:31,599
though they're not dead they can still

1403
00:51:35,510 --> 00:51:33,760
hurt you

1404
00:51:37,829 --> 00:51:35,520
even though they're long dead they can

1405
00:51:38,870 --> 00:51:37,839
still do some damage very much so

1406
00:51:40,390 --> 00:51:38,880
imagine what they would have been like

1407
00:51:41,510 --> 00:51:40,400
when they were hunting you

1408
00:51:43,030 --> 00:51:41,520
yeah well

1409
00:51:44,470 --> 00:51:43,040
no it wouldn't have been fun

1410
00:51:46,470 --> 00:51:44,480
this thing would have chased you down at

1411
00:51:48,470 --> 00:51:46,480
40 k's an hour you would not run away

1412
00:51:49,670 --> 00:51:48,480
from it but it's good things that humans

1413
00:51:50,390 --> 00:51:49,680
didn't share the planet with them at the

1414
00:51:51,510 --> 00:51:50,400
time

1415
00:51:53,430 --> 00:51:51,520
i don't know

1416
00:51:54,630 --> 00:51:53,440
i would like to be back there yeah look

1417
00:51:56,470 --> 00:51:54,640
i mean a lot of people would like to

1418
00:51:57,670 --> 00:51:56,480
know what they like but

1419
00:51:58,870 --> 00:51:57,680
now

1420
00:52:00,390 --> 00:51:58,880
do you think you could have got away

1421
00:52:02,150 --> 00:52:00,400
from them by hiding or doing something

1422
00:52:03,510 --> 00:52:02,160
tricky that a big brain could do or you

1423
00:52:05,349 --> 00:52:03,520
reckon once that they'd found you there

1424
00:52:07,109 --> 00:52:05,359
was no way out

1425
00:52:08,950 --> 00:52:07,119
look i saw jurassic park they can open

1426
00:52:10,230 --> 00:52:08,960
doors

1427
00:52:11,270 --> 00:52:10,240
yeah well

1428
00:52:12,950 --> 00:52:11,280
don't believe everything you're seeing

1429
00:52:14,309 --> 00:52:12,960
jurassic park they also said in jurassic

1430
00:52:16,230 --> 00:52:14,319
park if you stood still they couldn't

1431
00:52:18,470 --> 00:52:16,240
see you these things had the eyes of an

1432
00:52:20,950 --> 00:52:18,480
eagle they had excellent vision

1433
00:52:22,790 --> 00:52:20,960
they their nose the turbinals in the

1434
00:52:25,190 --> 00:52:22,800
nose curl though wrapped around so they

1435
00:52:27,190 --> 00:52:25,200
had extra surface area in the nasal

1436
00:52:29,990 --> 00:52:27,200
cavity so they'd smell you out they they

1437
00:52:32,870 --> 00:52:30,000
led their life by their nose uh their

1438
00:52:33,990 --> 00:52:32,880
excellent sense of smell great vision

1439
00:52:35,750 --> 00:52:34,000
they um

1440
00:52:37,910 --> 00:52:35,760
they were very amazing animals these

1441
00:52:38,950 --> 00:52:37,920
t-rexes and uh no you wouldn't get away

1442
00:52:41,109 --> 00:52:38,960
from it

1443
00:52:42,950 --> 00:52:41,119
and after all it took a massive asteroid

1444
00:52:45,589 --> 00:52:42,960
strike to get rid of them didn't it very

1445
00:52:47,030 --> 00:52:45,599
much so yeah the kt event yeah they

1446
00:52:48,870 --> 00:52:47,040
figure that's what uh wiped everything

1447
00:52:50,950 --> 00:52:48,880
out all the big stuff

1448
00:52:52,390 --> 00:52:50,960
and but after the kt event we've got

1449
00:52:54,390 --> 00:52:52,400
something that's from our very own

1450
00:52:56,549 --> 00:52:54,400
continent here please describe what this

1451
00:52:58,069 --> 00:52:56,559
one is to me it looks like um well

1452
00:52:59,430 --> 00:52:58,079
what's what's the distant relative of

1453
00:53:00,950 --> 00:52:59,440
that we have now

1454
00:53:03,750 --> 00:53:00,960
well let's say i have to do the tapping

1455
00:53:05,750 --> 00:53:03,760
thing that's how we get things on

1456
00:53:07,910 --> 00:53:05,760
so it's a bit smaller but

1457
00:53:09,829 --> 00:53:07,920
that's um that's an

1458
00:53:12,549 --> 00:53:09,839
ancestor to the monitor lizards or

1459
00:53:15,270 --> 00:53:12,559
goannas that's called megalania prisca

1460
00:53:17,589 --> 00:53:15,280
lived in australia up till about 6 000

1461
00:53:19,510 --> 00:53:17,599
years ago very recent it was an ambush

1462
00:53:21,829 --> 00:53:19,520
hunter it's like a big um

1463
00:53:23,589 --> 00:53:21,839
komodo dragon it was an ambush killer

1464
00:53:25,750 --> 00:53:23,599
would just lay near a waterfall bought a

1465
00:53:27,589 --> 00:53:25,760
hole wait for a diproton or something to

1466
00:53:29,910 --> 00:53:27,599
come up to have a drink and just grab

1467
00:53:31,670 --> 00:53:29,920
them and lacerate the legs

1468
00:53:33,430 --> 00:53:31,680
and they wouldn't get focused at dietary

1469
00:53:34,790 --> 00:53:33,440
shock and loss of blood

1470
00:53:37,109 --> 00:53:34,800
and that's what our alligators get up to

1471
00:53:39,109 --> 00:53:37,119
these days too pretty much yeah yeah

1472
00:53:41,829 --> 00:53:39,119
it's like a like a komodo dragon would

1473
00:53:43,829 --> 00:53:41,839
have lived a similar life it was

1474
00:53:45,430 --> 00:53:43,839
up to seven meters long

1475
00:53:47,190 --> 00:53:45,440
wow and

1476
00:53:49,270 --> 00:53:47,200
you've said there's so much on your

1477
00:53:50,630 --> 00:53:49,280
to-do list what is the very next thing

1478
00:53:52,710 --> 00:53:50,640
is there something here that's yet to be

1479
00:53:55,030 --> 00:53:52,720
uh be processed i'm working on this

1480
00:53:56,150 --> 00:53:55,040
triceratops skull out here

1481
00:53:57,270 --> 00:53:56,160
we're just going out into the kitchen

1482
00:53:59,109 --> 00:53:57,280
that gives y'all now we're going through

1483
00:54:00,630 --> 00:53:59,119
the kitchen into the backyard folks to

1484
00:54:01,990 --> 00:54:00,640
have a look at

1485
00:54:03,750 --> 00:54:02,000
it looks like

1486
00:54:05,670 --> 00:54:03,760
something yeah look even i know that's a

1487
00:54:07,990 --> 00:54:05,680
triceratops which

1488
00:54:09,670 --> 00:54:08,000
if it's triceratops triceratops this is

1489
00:54:11,270 --> 00:54:09,680
my knife frilled triceratops it's got no

1490
00:54:13,670 --> 00:54:11,280
frill on it i'm gonna have to construct

1491
00:54:15,349 --> 00:54:13,680
a frill to put this on display but the

1492
00:54:16,790 --> 00:54:15,359
the skull is too good not to do anything

1493
00:54:19,030 --> 00:54:16,800
with so

1494
00:54:20,549 --> 00:54:19,040
um i'll build up a

1495
00:54:22,630 --> 00:54:20,559
frill for the skull

1496
00:54:24,950 --> 00:54:22,640
now is the triceratops a meat eater or

1497
00:54:26,870 --> 00:54:24,960
was it vegetarian no it was a vegetarian

1498
00:54:28,870 --> 00:54:26,880
it was a herbivore

1499
00:54:29,829 --> 00:54:28,880
a herbivore so it doesn't get the big

1500
00:54:31,349 --> 00:54:29,839
teeth like

1501
00:54:32,950 --> 00:54:31,359
so unfortunately it doesn't get big

1502
00:54:35,030 --> 00:54:32,960
scary teeth doesn't get the big skirt

1503
00:54:38,309 --> 00:54:35,040
teeth we've got the big scary horns

1504
00:54:39,990 --> 00:54:38,319
it's like a big rhinoceros

1505
00:54:41,510 --> 00:54:40,000
that's amazing well thanks for sharing

1506
00:54:42,870 --> 00:54:41,520
this collection with us and your

1507
00:54:45,109 --> 00:54:42,880
obsession too because i mean it's great

1508
00:54:46,470 --> 00:54:45,119
to see people that have a passion for

1509
00:54:48,549 --> 00:54:46,480
something that you've just never

1510
00:54:50,470 --> 00:54:48,559
encountered before and i hope like some

1511
00:54:51,990 --> 00:54:50,480
i hope someone does pick up

1512
00:54:54,069 --> 00:54:52,000
the chance to exhibit this somewhere

1513
00:54:55,190 --> 00:54:54,079
because it's great i mean and you

1514
00:54:57,030 --> 00:54:55,200
haven't got enough room in your house

1515
00:54:58,790 --> 00:54:57,040
for this stuff mike rapidly running out

1516
00:55:14,390 --> 00:54:58,800
of room even though

1517
00:55:19,430 --> 00:55:16,390
this is eugenie scott national center

1518
00:55:23,430 --> 00:55:19,440
for science education you can find us at

1519
00:55:27,430 --> 00:55:25,190
come see us if you want to know anything

1520
00:55:29,990 --> 00:55:27,440
about the creationism and evolution

1521
00:55:31,910 --> 00:55:30,000
conflict in the united states or

1522
00:55:33,829 --> 00:55:31,920
moors the pity internationally these

1523
00:55:37,030 --> 00:55:33,839
days we are clearing house for

1524
00:55:38,950 --> 00:55:37,040
information on this vexing but certainly

1525
00:55:51,349 --> 00:55:38,960
very interesting problem

1526
00:55:54,789 --> 00:55:53,190
well we don't see much of them anymore

1527
00:55:57,349 --> 00:55:54,799
but they're still about it's the old

1528
00:55:59,270 --> 00:55:57,359
power balance wristbands and all their

1529
00:56:00,950 --> 00:55:59,280
imitations and ilk

1530
00:56:03,670 --> 00:56:00,960
but a good friend of the skeptic zone

1531
00:56:05,990 --> 00:56:03,680
david bowick hi david hello

1532
00:56:07,430 --> 00:56:06,000
it has brought this to my attention uh

1533
00:56:09,990 --> 00:56:07,440
which i have right in front of me it's

1534
00:56:10,950 --> 00:56:10,000
called a mystic band

1535
00:56:13,270 --> 00:56:10,960
it looks

1536
00:56:15,990 --> 00:56:13,280
almost identical to a power balance band

1537
00:56:17,670 --> 00:56:16,000
except the hologram is a yin and yang

1538
00:56:20,069 --> 00:56:17,680
sign which is a very nice looking

1539
00:56:21,750 --> 00:56:20,079
hologram i must say and you've picked

1540
00:56:25,030 --> 00:56:21,760
this up and it says it right on the

1541
00:56:26,789 --> 00:56:25,040
packet there for only three dollars yes

1542
00:56:28,309 --> 00:56:26,799
that's that's that's

1543
00:56:29,430 --> 00:56:28,319
i'm staggered i'm staggered that

1544
00:56:30,950 --> 00:56:29,440
somebody would

1545
00:56:32,789 --> 00:56:30,960
bother importing them and selling them

1546
00:56:33,990 --> 00:56:32,799
so cheaply but it is from the reject

1547
00:56:35,589 --> 00:56:34,000
shop and you were just shopping there

1548
00:56:37,349 --> 00:56:35,599
and happened to spot it yes and i

1549
00:56:39,349 --> 00:56:37,359
thought you might be interested in it i

1550
00:56:41,030 --> 00:56:39,359
absolutely am but the interesting thing

1551
00:56:42,309 --> 00:56:41,040
about this packaging david i must say

1552
00:56:44,390 --> 00:56:42,319
apart from the fact that it's pretty

1553
00:56:47,750 --> 00:56:44,400
boring packaging

1554
00:56:49,990 --> 00:56:47,760
um it makes no claims absolutely no

1555
00:56:52,309 --> 00:56:50,000
preposterous claims nothing in fact it

1556
00:56:53,349 --> 00:56:52,319
says mystic band three dollars a reject

1557
00:56:55,349 --> 00:56:53,359
shop

1558
00:56:58,390 --> 00:56:55,359
imported by so-and-so and so-and-so made

1559
00:57:00,309 --> 00:56:58,400
in china that's it no no strength claim

1560
00:57:02,950 --> 00:57:00,319
no balance claim

1561
00:57:03,670 --> 00:57:02,960
an honest placebo band can you believe

1562
00:57:06,630 --> 00:57:03,680
it

1563
00:57:08,069 --> 00:57:06,640
yeah no i didn't so

1564
00:57:09,349 --> 00:57:08,079
i told you about it

1565
00:57:11,270 --> 00:57:09,359
and you've been

1566
00:57:12,870 --> 00:57:11,280
discussing with me just earlier that

1567
00:57:15,430 --> 00:57:12,880
you've noticed some people you know

1568
00:57:17,270 --> 00:57:15,440
wearing the so-called real thing and be

1569
00:57:18,870 --> 00:57:17,280
trying to persuade them maybe that's not

1570
00:57:20,870 --> 00:57:18,880
the best thing to have on

1571
00:57:21,670 --> 00:57:20,880
project managers at work who should know

1572
00:57:24,710 --> 00:57:21,680
better

1573
00:57:27,430 --> 00:57:24,720
point because a lot of people were

1574
00:57:28,950 --> 00:57:27,440
hoodwinked by it and you can't find them

1575
00:57:30,950 --> 00:57:28,960
around anymore because the government

1576
00:57:32,710 --> 00:57:30,960
took action

1577
00:57:34,950 --> 00:57:32,720
but i'm pleased to see that somewhere

1578
00:57:36,950 --> 00:57:34,960
like the reject shop is selling them at

1579
00:57:39,349 --> 00:57:36,960
such a

1580
00:57:42,230 --> 00:57:39,359
small price hopefully people will buy

1581
00:57:43,990 --> 00:57:42,240
this one without any claims of miracles

1582
00:57:45,910 --> 00:57:44,000
and undercut the people out there who

1583
00:57:48,470 --> 00:57:45,920
are selling them for 60 or 70 dollars a

1584
00:57:49,990 --> 00:57:48,480
pop but i'm glad that you're out there

1585
00:57:51,510 --> 00:57:50,000
we've got our eyes and ears out

1586
00:58:12,870 --> 00:57:51,520
everywhere on the skeptic zone so thank

1587
00:58:15,589 --> 00:58:14,710
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1588
00:58:17,750 --> 00:58:15,599
zone

1589
00:58:19,109 --> 00:58:17,760
well i'm still here sitting outside jim

1590
00:58:21,190 --> 00:58:19,119
wilshere's house in the beautiful

1591
00:58:23,430 --> 00:58:21,200
countryside of

1592
00:58:24,789 --> 00:58:23,440
southern new south wales just near the

1593
00:58:26,549 --> 00:58:24,799
murray river

1594
00:58:28,630 --> 00:58:26,559
cockatoos are still screeching in the

1595
00:58:31,349 --> 00:58:28,640
background the birds are singing

1596
00:58:33,670 --> 00:58:31,359
and there's some uh chickens oh

1597
00:58:36,710 --> 00:58:33,680
behind me in a chicken run

1598
00:58:39,030 --> 00:58:36,720
it's all very pleasant

1599
00:58:41,750 --> 00:58:39,040
and i note that inside the house jim has

1600
00:58:45,030 --> 00:58:41,760
started a nice fire so i might go in

1601
00:58:47,990 --> 00:58:45,040
sit back have a nice cup of coffee

1602
00:58:50,950 --> 00:58:48,000
until next time this is richard saunders

1603
00:58:53,190 --> 00:58:50,960
signing off from beautiful talmelmo

1604
00:58:59,270 --> 00:58:53,200
alongside the murray river

1605
00:59:02,470 --> 00:59:00,950
you've been listening to the skeptic

1606
00:59:07,270 --> 00:59:02,480
zone